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I used to own a P3AT a while back, and I sold it to another member here. It was more or less reliable. I say "more or less" because I did experience a couple of jams during range sessions. I honestly down know if I limp-wristed the gun, or if it was the gun's fault, but overall, I mostly had faith in its reliability. I just hated shooting the darn thing. It would bark my knuckle every time I pulled the trigger. And in the end, I just couldn't get past the fact that, compared to all of my other pistols, it seemed "cheaply" made. For that reason, mostly, I lost confidence in the gun and sold it. It was purely a "seat of the pants" kind of decision. It didn't feel right, so I sold it.

But I've know a lot of people over the years who carry one and are perfectly happy with them. In the end, I think it boils down to a price-point issue, and the perceived value in the mind of the owner. If I had no other choice but to carry another one, I'd do it and be thankful I had it. But I am not faced with that choice, and I didn't mind spending more money to get a lot more gun for pocket carry: namely a used PM9 with night sights, and a NIB scandium .357.

I am with you tam.the only reason I bought my p32 was for a deep concealment gun. If there was another gun that was that small and that light in better quality I would have bought it. My p32 loaded weighs the same as a lcp unloaded. It is about 9.5 ounces loaded. The p3at is about 11.5 and a lcp is about 13 to give you an idea.

gigag04 wrote:You guys carry what you want - and feel free to disagree. This is only the internet...

I would suggest that ANY handgun attempting to present itself as a serious defensive weapon that requires the regular application of a thread locker to prevent a catastrophic failure is not to be taken seriously.

Thread locker is used in many safety applications especially in high vibration areas even on your car and on big trucks. That is what it is made for. I've found it on brake caliber bolts and other critical areas.
As far as regular applications, it is only used when the item is reassembled from the occasional cleaning the firing pin channel. The threads must be lube free for it to work.
Now to really make your day ( ) that same bolt that was loose also keeps the firing pin in it's assigned channel.

I have been busy lately so I don't think I posted about my Kel-Tec failure.

As President of our Gun Club I was out at the range a couple weeks ago waiting on a dozer operator. Whiule there I decided I would do some drills with my PF9 since I happened to be carrying it.

I ran 3 mags or so through it with ball ammo practicing drawing from concealment and engaging . You know the usual, draw and double tap, draw and engage multiple targets etc etc. I felt like I was done so I decided I would put my defensive ammo back in and reholster. Thank God I decided to run one more mag. I hadn't done any accuracy practice with it, so I loaded up another mag of FMJ and racked one in....CLICK....tap rack CLICK, tap rack CLICK. I picked the dumped rounds up and inspected them. No indentation. So I cleared the pistol and took it apart, only to find that the firing pin was missing! I found the pin on the ground, and lost the spring.

The screw that holds the extractor in place had not backed out, but the end of it that holds the firing pin in had broken, letting said pieces fall out.

This gave me the sickest feeling in my gut. If I had not loaded one more mag after I thought I was done, I would have put my defensive ammo in and holstered my pistol expecting it to be ready if needed. Wouldn't that have been nice a couple hours later if I had drawn my pistol to defend myself and heard...CLICK ????

After seeing this post I remembered to call Kel-Tec. I just told them the parts I needed and they didn't ask why or what, the guy just said sure, I'll get those right out. They know it's a problem, we all know its a problem.

When my parts come this pistola will go adios.

Prior to this I NEVER had a failure of any kind. However, I won't feel all warm and fuzzy waiting for the pin to break again when I need it the most.

Rock on for those guys who's Kel-Tec works flawlessly; I personally wouldn't trust my life on them! For the same price point, go with Ruger instead of Kel-Tec if you want something economical.

Seabear wrote:I have been busy lately so I don't think I posted about my Kel-Tec failure.

As President of our Gun Club I was out at the range a couple weeks ago waiting on a dozer operator. Whiule there I decided I would do some drills with my PF9 since I happened to be carrying it.

I ran 3 mags or so through it with ball ammo practicing drawing from concealment and engaging . You know the usual, draw and double tap, draw and engage multiple targets etc etc. I felt like I was done so I decided I would put my defensive ammo back in and reholster. Thank God I decided to run one more mag. I hadn't done any accuracy practice with it, so I loaded up another mag of FMJ and racked one in....CLICK....tap rack CLICK, tap rack CLICK. I picked the dumped rounds up and inspected them. No indentation. So I cleared the pistol and took it apart, only to find that the firing pin was missing! I found the pin on the ground, and lost the spring.

The screw that holds the extractor in place had not backed out, but the end of it that holds the firing pin in had broken, letting said pieces fall out.

This gave me the sickest feeling in my gut. If I had not loaded one more mag after I thought I was done, I would have put my defensive ammo in and holstered my pistol expecting it to be ready if needed. Wouldn't that have been nice a couple hours later if I had drawn my pistol to defend myself and heard...CLICK ????

After seeing this post I remembered to call Kel-Tec. I just told them the parts I needed and they didn't ask why or what, the guy just said sure, I'll get those right out. They know it's a problem, we all know its a problem.

When my parts come this pistola will go adios.

Prior to this I NEVER had a failure of any kind. However, I won't feel all warm and fuzzy waiting for the pin to break again when I need it the most.

Wow.... my instincts are correct. The truth is that all guns are mechanical devices, and all mechanical devices are capable of failure. The question isn't whether they can fail, it is how likely they are to fail. One of our guns is a Glock 19.....a pistol notorious for its out-of-the-box reliability and ruggedness. I have personally experienced two jams while shooting this pistol—one stovepipe, and one failure to go all the way into battery. Most of us have seen pictures of "kaboomed" Glocks, mostly in .40 S&W. If you haven't, just Google "Glock Kaboom," and you'll see plenty of pictures and videos taken from separate incidents. But, Glock had manufactured 2 million pistols by 1999, there were more than 4 million "on active duty" by 2009 (SOURCE), and, simple mechanical malfunctions excluded, the total number of failures in which the pistol actually destroys itself or parts of itself because of the cartridge's detonation are minuscule, and most of those can be traced to one caliber, involving either bullet setback, or overpressure handloads.

Glocks are not my favorite pistols, but that has more to do with how their ergonomics affect me personally. I have never distrusted the quality of manufacture of the Glock 19 we own, and I have carried it on occasion. Personally, I prefer XDm and M&P pistols for ergonomic reasons which, despite what the Glock fanboys claim, are just as reliable as Glocks are. All of these pistols deserve their reputations for reliability and ruggedness, as well as accuracy. With the advent of guns like the XDs, M&P Shield, Beretta Nano, and others into the semiauto pocket pistol market, it is entirely possible to have a well-made pocket pistol at real-world prices. At the price-point between the first tier guns and the Kel-Tecs are the Kahr Arms pocket pistols. Having owned a Kel-Tec, three Kahrs, an M&P, a Glock, and an XD(m), I do believe that you get what you pay for.......and part of what you're paying for are the strength and integrity of the design, and the quality of the materials and workmanship.

My guess.....and this is ONLY a guess.......is that Kel-Tec pistols are caliber limited from a safety standpoint by the choice of materials and design that goes into them. It's my opinion that .380 ACP is probably right at the design limits from a safety standpoint, and that 9mm surpasses those limits. Probably, the .32 ACP P-32 is the safer choice; and being slightly smaller, it is a better deep concealment pistol. Having owned both a P3AT and a Kahr PM9, I just didn't see that the Kel-Tech in .380 had that much of an advantage from a deep concealment perspective to overcome my lingering mistrust of the design and materials in that caliber application.

I think that their .223 rifles are probably safe, in no small part because they don't have to sacrifice strength to size. I'm assuming they're reliable, although I don't really know anything about them. So far, the RFB has shown itself to be reliable, but the KSG less so. I think Kel-Tec has to regroup and commit to some pistol redesigns, or their pistols will eventually go the way of Grendel, another company that Kel-Tec owner George Kellgren designed. But I would not be as worried about their sub-.380 pistols as I would be about the 9mms and .380s.

I've never owned a keltec, but see their appeal as deep concealment pistols. I did however run out and buy an lc9 as soon as they touched the shelf. I thought, hey... it's a Ruger, right? Well to my utter disappointment, first range trip, click. Started on the second mag. I got the dreaded firing pin channel clogging with primer material thing. Ruger being Ruger fixed it no questions asked. I have since then put MANY flawless round down her with out a hiccup of any kind. Do I trust it, yeah, I guess. I got it to pocket carry on those sort of days but never really have. I always look into my safe in the morning and my eyes move over my M&P 40 compact and I feel warm and comfortable; my eyes move over my lc9 and I still hear the click. I just can't shake it. I've since gotten a j frame for pocket carry and will likely let the lc9 go someday. For me, m&p 90% of the time and revo 10%, both 100% reliable

2farnorth wrote:

gigag04 wrote:You guys carry what you want - and feel free to disagree. This is only the internet...

I would suggest that ANY handgun attempting to present itself as a serious defensive weapon that requires the regular application of a thread locker to prevent a catastrophic failure is not to be taken seriously.

Thread locker is used in many safety applications especially in high vibration areas even on your car and on big trucks. That is what it is made for. I've found it on brake caliber bolts and other critical areas.
As far as regular applications, it is only used when the item is reassembled from the occasional cleaning the firing pin channel. The threads must be lube free for it to work.
Now to really make your day ( ) that same bolt that was loose also keeps the firing pin in it's assigned channel.

I use thread locker on my track motorcycle too...that proves nothing to me about Kel-Tec's quality...

On my ARs I stake things that might back out and cause the gun to fail. Threadlocker doesnt belong on a pistol. On a last resort pistol, it should work without thread locker, crazy glue, or pixie dust. Maybe a light coat of oil...that's it.

Again, carry what you want.

What, no pixie dust? I thought that was what was in night sights!

I have had a P3AT for several years and never had an issue.

Suferdaddy- similar thing happened to me. I kept having ftf or eject in two small 380 pistols on several occasions. Not every mag but every range visit I would get maybe 2-3 out of 150 rounds. I wanted my bug to be as reliable as my main carry and the j-frame has solved that problem. I know revolvers can and do fail but so far in the 2 years or so since I started carrying it as my bug it has not failed me in any way.

I had one years ago. One day at the range when I pulled the trigger it didn't go off. I sold it to some one who was into all the "fluffing and buffing". I bought a Kahr PM9 which is not only more accurate but has never failed me.

I can't speak to their pistols, but I have well over 1000 rounds through my Sub2K without a single FTF or FTE. I run it fairly hard out at the range, too.

maverick2076 wrote:I can't speak to their pistols, but I have well over 1000 rounds through my Sub2K without a single FTF or FTE. I run it fairly hard out at the range, too.

Which speaks to my earlier comments about their rifles probably being more reliable, because they are not constrained by having to fit a lot of engineering into a tiny little package....with room for only so much engineering.

I dont own a kel Tec - I have friends that do.
The MAIN attraction seems to be price.
I dont pick brands based on price and I sure dont pick guns to carry and depend on based on price.
I guess Im fortunate in that way.

Like other responders have said, every time I picked one up they looked and felt cheap.
Again IM not interested in buying a gun with the primary decision points how cheap it is... Especially when they Feel cheap and look cheap.

I went to the range with a buddy and his new PMR-30
It was really light and really unreliable - BUt it did make an impressive ring of fire shoot out the barrel when he fired it

Im not a cop and I dont carry every day but when I do I sure as heck want to have confidence in my gun.