TexasCHLforum.com

Beiruty wrote:There is a crazy scenario that did come to my mind regarding CC at schools.
Let us say CC is allowed at high schools.
Let us say a teacher for grade 10/11 was outed by the his students.
Let us say a bunch of teens decided to be in a "click" and decided on crazy idea:
Gang on the CHLer teacher and try to disarm him and run away with his "piece"
Let us say the teacher preempted the attack and pulled his CC in self-defense.
Let us say the teens do not back off, on order from their teacher and decided to blow off his threat of shooting.
Let us say that the CHLer teacher feared losing control of his "piece" and opened fire killing and wounding many of assailants kids.

The liberals will have a field day press against CC in TX!

Beiruty, we've only met once out at Elm Fork, but I've also read your writings for a while now and I've always thought you to be a pretty reasonable guy. I just don't know what to think of your position on this subject. This hypothetical scenario could happen anywhere. It could happen in my own front yard as I'm getting home from work. Sure, some folk would freak out and the liberals would have a field day. They don't like it when someone shoots a bad guy that was about to rape or murder their 10 year old little girl. However, the truth will come out that the teenagers outnumbered the lone adult and he did fear for his life and was justified in his actions. Hopefully!

Gdanaher, trust me when I say this, if that's where I've hidden my carry gun everyone's gonna know it.

Beiruty wrote:There is a crazy scenario that did come to my mind regarding CC at schools.
Let us say CC is allowed at high schools.
Let us say a teacher for grade 10/11 was outed by the his students.
Let us say a bunch of teens decided to be in a "click" and decided on crazy idea:
Gang on the CHLer teacher and try to disarm him and run away with his "piece"
Let us say the teacher preempted the attack and pulled his CC in self-defense.
Let us say the teens do not back off, on order from their teacher and decided to blow off his threat of shooting.
Let us say that the CHLer teacher feared losing control of his "piece" and opened fire killing and wounding many of assailants kids.

The liberals will have a field day press against CC in TX!

Let us say CC is allowed at high schools.
Let us say a crazed gunman comes in.
Let us say a CHL teacher (or staff or parent) shoots said crazed bad guy.
Let us say the CHLer saves the teen "click"(sic).

The liberals will have a field day press against CC in TX!

No win situation.

But directly to your hypothetical scenario. At the point in time that the teacher feared for their life or SBI the shooting was justified. Oh, but I can hear the argument, "But if the teacher hadn't had the gun in the first place this would have never happened." Demonize the inanimate object and place blame on the person on legal grounds. "Your honor, it is the homeowner's fault my client broke his leg. If the defendant would not have locked his door my client would not have had to try to kick it in to rob him and thereby breaking his leg."

At what point do we stop worrying so much about what the "liberals" or anybody else says and we stand up and do what is right? I don't care who I offend as long as I can rightfully keep me and mine safe.

We can come up with "crazy" scenarios all day and they are just as valid as wishing I'll get rich teaching. Could it happen? Will it happen?

School shootings are not going away anytime soon.

WELL FIDDLESTICKS, I still have a day job so, I missed all the excitement. I must say however, my position was well defended in my abscence. For my last comments, I will make what I believe to be a couple of factual observations.
1.It would be disingenuous to believe there is no chance of a possible disaster if CHL carry were allowed in schools. However that premise holds true anywhere there is CHL carry.
2. It would be even more disingenuous to believe an active shooter can't or won't happen in any of your local schools.

The one good thing about this discussion is that you know how many people read the forum on a somewhat regular basis!

gdanaher wrote:The one good thing about this discussion is that you know how many people read the forum on a somewhat regular basis!

So in other words, no interest in answering why you think preventing chls in schools will stop bad guys. Got it.

gdanaher wrote:The one good thing about this discussion is that you know how many people read the forum on a somewhat regular basis!

Am I to assume that is a shot across my bow?

74novaman wrote:So in other words, no interest in answering why you think preventing chls in schools will stop bad guys. Got it.

I answered this about an hour ago but it didn't publish. Let me see if this goes through. The short answer is you aren't, but you already knew that I hope. First you aren't going to stop a bg because part of joining the bg club is disrespecting virtually all laws. The bad guys are going to come regardless. Some of those idiots attack real cops just so they can commit suicide by cop. There is an outside chance some crazed loon could do the same thing if he thought that every teacher in a school had a gun. Just go in and 'brandish' a gun and surely one of those teachers will pop him. But as previously stated, not all teachers are cut from the same fabric. One of them will screw up, and it only takes one for a problem. Here's the fix: you require every member of the staff to be licensed and carry at all times, purchase an insurance policy for the employees and the district that emdemnifies them against loss resulting from injury or death of a child in their care. Now you are covered. Still the idea though that teachers can carry and the kids not find out about is ridiculous.

Lastly, if you think this is a good idea and it may be in some communities, contact members of your local school board and communicate your thoughts with them. Is that asking too much?

donniet wrote:

gdanaher wrote:The one good thing about this discussion is that you know how many people read the forum on a somewhat regular basis!

Am I to assume that is a shot across my bow?

Your bow must be pretty sensitive. This thread has been running for 3 days and only 81 people have chosen to vote. That's a pretty small audience by some standards. I don't think you should be held personally responsible for a small readership but if it makes you feel good.......

gdanaher wrote:

74novaman wrote:So in other words, no interest in answering why you think preventing chls in schools will stop bad guys. Got it.

I answered this about an hour ago but it didn't publish. Let me see if this goes through. The short answer is you aren't, but you already knew that I hope.

Yep, but since you seemed so insistent on the idea of continuing the ban, I wasn't sure if you did.

Here's the fix: you require every member of the staff to be licensed and carry at all times, purchase an insurance policy for the employees and the district that emdemnifies them against loss resulting from injury or death of a child in their care. Now you are covered.

How on earth is that the fix? Why not treat schools like 95% of other places in Texas and allow those ALREADY licensed by the state to carry? You stated earlier in this thread you knew teachers you wouldn't trust with a gun, but now you want them all carrying?

Still the idea though that teachers can carry and the kids not find out about is ridiculous.

Another teacher with 26 years of experience has contradicted your opinion on that little "fact". I notice you still haven't mentioned your own impeccable credentials for telling us all why he's wrong.

Lastly, if you think this is a good idea and it may be in some communities, contact members of your local school board and communicate your thoughts with them. Is that asking too much?

To be frank, that is absolutely asking too much. The state has already had these people sit through a 10 hour course, take a shooting test, take a written test, get fingerprinted and photographed, undergo a background check by the state merely to exercise a constitutional right, and now they have to go begging to the school board for their rights?

You seem to have this impression that a school is some magical place with unique circumstances.

It's not. Other businesses (daycares come to mind) and organizations (churches, camps, etc) deal with massive amounts of kids, and they don't need "special treatment" when it comes to CHL holders.

The only thing unique about schools is scum know that barring a cop being there, they're going to be the only ones armed if they shoot up a school.

If we treat schools like most every place else, they won't be assured that.

Will it stop all school shootings? Of course not, just as CHL laws haven't stopped crime. Will it lessen the likelihood of high body count shootings? Absolutely. Every mass murderer with a gun has carried out his rampage in a place where people aren't legally allowed to carry. Is that a coincidence you think?

US school shootings 1996-2012 (quick count)

Killed 124 (80+ in last decade)
Armed intervientions 2 (one vice principal (Pearl, Miss.) and 2 LEO students at Applachian Law School. All three retrieved firearms from vehicles. In both instances gunman was held at gunpoint after the shootings.)

We are behind and have little opportunity of preventing further deaths as things stand.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

C-dub wrote:

Beiruty wrote:There is a crazy scenario that did come to my mind regarding CC at schools.
Let us say CC is allowed at high schools.
Let us say a teacher for grade 10/11 was outed by the his students.
Let us say a bunch of teens decided to be in a "click" and decided on crazy idea:
Gang on the CHLer teacher and try to disarm him and run away with his "piece"
Let us say the teacher preempted the attack and pulled his CC in self-defense.
Let us say the teens do not back off, on order from their teacher and decided to blow off his threat of shooting.
Let us say that the CHLer teacher feared losing control of his "piece" and opened fire killing and wounding many of assailants kids.

The liberals will have a field day press against CC in TX!

Beiruty, we've only met once out at Elm Fork, but I've also read your writings for a while now and I've always thought you to be a pretty reasonable guy. I just don't know what to think of your position on this subject. This hypothetical scenario could happen anywhere. It could happen in my own front yard as I'm getting home from work. Sure, some folk would freak out and the liberals would have a field day. They don't like it when someone shoots a bad guy that was about to rape or murder their 10 year old little girl. However, the truth will come out that the teenagers outnumbered the lone adult and he did fear for his life and was justified in his actions. Hopefully!

Gdanaher, trust me when I say this, if that's where I've hidden my carry gun everyone's gonna know it.

It was pleasure meeting you, and I am sure in future texaschlforum range, and lunch meeting we meet again.

Yep, I am reasonable guy. AND, I would like to run some scenarios in my head and on the web and here on this forum, so that I can anticipate my actions in the real world. It is a kind of train your brain for the right decisions. The scenario I mentioned, true it can happen anywhere, and the shooting is 100% justified (as per disparity of force theory). However, when it happens in school and incident happens between teacher/his students it would higher burden on the shooter due the previous close relationship with his students. I wish this never happens in real-life.

On the other hand, CHLer in schools is still good idea, when Columbine HS incident can happen again anywhere, anytime. The only other solution is to have 2 or more Armed LEO on campus 100% of the time, the school is in session.


BTW, the liberals can blow steam as much as they can in regard of the expired bad guy with 1-mile high rap sheet, with drug addiction, etc... Judges and DA and LEO will have less work.

74novaman wrote: Another teacher with 26 years of experience has contradicted your opinion on that little "fact". I notice you still haven't mentioned your own impeccable credentials for telling us all why he's wrong.
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I'm already sufficiently public here, so additional 'credentials' would be pointless. I'm not publishing a resume on a newsgroup. Sorry.
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Lastly, if you think this is a good idea and it may be in some communities, contact members of your local school board and communicate your thoughts with them. Is that asking too much?

To be frank, that is absolutely asking too much. The state has already had these people sit through a 10 hour course, take a shooting test, take a written test, get fingerprinted and photographed, undergo a background check by the state merely to exercise a constitutional right, and now they have to go begging to the school board for their rights?
--------------
How is this too much? The rules are the rules. All the bluster here won't change a thing if your local board doesn't change the local rules. So go ahead and talk about how unfair it is that you can't carry in your local school, how unfair it is that the teachers can't carry. If your local board wanted to change the rules, they have that option, so although you may find some relief from your angst by writing to this group, your true relief is in the board room.

You seem to have this impression that a school is some magical place with unique circumstances.

Yep, again you are right--dead on. A school IS a magical place with unique circumstances. That's what I've been saying for 3 days.

Teamless wrote:

Scott in Houston wrote:I cannot imagine any active member of this board voting in favor of keeping schools 'off limits'.

When I voted, it showed 29 for NO and 1 for YES, so someone (NOT ME!) voted in favor.... hmmm

The brady bunch visit here and observe. They might even be a few registered.

I heard rumors that a few of us check out their sites once in a while.

gdanaher wrote:

donniet wrote:

gdanaher wrote:The one good thing about this discussion is that you know how many people read the forum on a somewhat regular basis!

Am I to assume that is a shot across my bow?

Your bow must be pretty sensitive. This thread has been running for 3 days and only 81 people have chosen to vote. That's a pretty small audience by some standards. I don't think you should be held personally responsible for a small readership but if it makes you feel good.......

I was attempting to explain with a little humor, why I was late joining the discussion. I'm sorry you found that offensive. I do not wish to engage in a sniping contest. So, I will defer to civility and withdraw from this discussion. Good day.

Here is an answer. http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/200 ... n-schools/ This would be the teachers.

For the average Joe Blo with a CHL the answer is yes they should be able to carry anywhere they go, the same as Judges and prosicuting attorneys. A CHL holder has passed the tests, the background check,etc.,they should be able to carry everywhere including the public areas of the Post Office, Court offices, Social Security Administration offices, etc..