Should Schools Be "Prohibited Places"?

[RoyGBiv]

In order to obtain a CHL....
- Must be 21
- Not a felon, fugitive, habitual misdemeanor offender, drug abuser, etc. etc.
- Yadda, yadda

No student in any grade school (K-12) can obtain a permit (too young, hopefully ).
So, who does this restriction "keep out"?

Does it keep out any "Bad guys"? No.! We see it on TV all too often.
- Student with a gun in their backpack
- Student shoots ex girlfriends new boyfriend at lunch (shooter wasn't even a student at that school)

Do schools have any way of assuring this "No Guns" policy other than "Security Theater?"
..... My local schools have....
- Responsibility for my most precious family members
- 30.06 signs (oooo.. scary... that'll keep the bad guys at bay)
- Locked entry porticos... The outer door is locked, until you press a button and say "I'm here to....". Maybe if a dumb-enough BG is holding their gun in their hand they might not get buzzed in. Once they're in, there's nothing you can do to stop them. Buzz. Bang.
........ My local schools don't have....
- Metal detectors
- Guards (just a very polite lady at the front desk who can be quite stern when you've done something naughty )
- Armed teachers (AFAIK)

So..... why is it that schools are "Prohibited Places"?
Is there some actual safety logic I'm missing, or is it really just blatantly obvious theater?
If my kids teachers want to be armed, and they can pass a background check.... I'm for it.

[APynckel]

it keeps the liberals feeling safe


cuz you know, guns kill people, and when you couple that to those baby homing bullets, you have a recipe for an entire school deceased because of one angry gun.

[Scott in Houston]

I cannot imagine any active member of this board voting in favor of keeping schools 'off limits'.

[Beiruty]

From Safety concerns, if CHLers are allowed in the schools, 2 major safety issue arises:
1) ND which is super rare as per CHL population
2) UN-intended bystanders (kids) being shot in a crossfire. However, this could happen anywhere there are crowds, like in a mall.

[RoyGBiv]

I cannot imagine any active member of this board voting in favor of keeping schools 'off limits'.

I can think of a few arguments in favor of keeping schools off limits, but, I don't think they're sufficient.
(Beiruty beat me to it , I'm sure there's a few more.. )

After watching the election returns and listening to the "talking heads" on TV last night I find myself in a "facepalm" kind of mood today.

[RPB]

Well .... do they have text alerts and drills twice a year on how to get under a desk?
I mean if they do, and they effectively disarm "almost" everyone ... isn't that close enough?

District on 'cutting edge' of school safety
http://www.the-news-leader.com/news/article/5164598" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Um no, they should not be prohibited places... except for criminals, so remove the restriction on CHLs, and put up signs and pass laws "no criminal allowed" ... that should do it..

[JJVP]

From Safety concerns, if CHLers are allowed in the schools, 2 major safety issue arises:
1) ND which is super rare as per CHL population
2) UN-intended bystanders (kids) being shot in a crossfire. However, this could happen anywhere there are crowds, like in a mall.

That implies that is OK if the kids are shot on purpose by a deranged lunatic, but not if they are accidentally shot in the cross fire while someone is trying to defend them. I have never understood that logic.

I know that if one of my kids was shot by a CHL'er or police during a gun fire while trying to protect the lives of others, including my kid, I would not hold them responsible. I would thank them for trying to protect my kid and for, hopefully, saving the lives of others in the process.

[gdanaher]

I know that if one of my kids was shot by a CHL'er or police during a gun fire while trying to protect the lives of others, including my kid, I would not hold them responsible. I would thank them for trying to protect my kid and for, hopefully, saving the lives of others in the process.
---------------------
You are a unique individual, and I congratulate you. I've worked in the education industry for over 35 years and I can assure you that 99/100 parents would be thirsting for my blood if during a shoot out with a bad guy, their child was harmed. Beyond that 70/100 parents would be litigious if their child SAW someone injured. I would love to be able to carry in the classroom. During my career I have dealt with parents who where in the school, armed, and unhappy. As an alternative, I would wonder how difficult it might be for an isd to train a cadre of teachers as sworn peace officers. Given that training they would have greater latitude and protection to act under the law.

[troglodyte]

As a school teacher I am entrusted with the safety of your children, whether we are doing a lab, riding on a bus, or the wolf comes. As it stands now I can lock my door, turn out the light and hunker down and pray my child, or your's, was not caught out in the hall. I'll protect the ones I have anyway I can...and I do have plan. I will not abandon your children but if I can make sure they are well taken care of then I have other options that open up.

I do not, cannot, understand why schools are off limits. The experts* know,and are telling us, the wolf is coming for our kids. We see "minor" incidents all to often. Could the CHL have done anything? We'll never know. We do know they couldn't do anything.

So very frustrating. I could go on but my off period is over and your kids are coming in.

*Dave Grossman being one.

[Teamless]

I cannot imagine any active member of this board voting in favor of keeping schools 'off limits'.

When I voted, it showed 29 for NO and 1 for YES, so someone (NOT ME!) voted in favor.... hmmm

[RoyGBiv]

As a school teacher I am entrusted with the safety of your children, whether we are doing a lab, riding on a bus, or the wolf comes. As it stands now I can lock my door, turn out the light and hunker down and pray my child, or your's, was not caught out in the hall. I'll protect the ones I have anyway I can...and I do have plan. I will not abandon your children but if I can make sure they are well taken care of then I have other options that open up.

I do not, cannot, understand why schools are off limits. The experts* know,and are telling us, the wolf is coming for our kids. We see "minor" incidents all to often. Could the CHL have done anything? We'll never know. We do know they couldn't do anything.

So very frustrating. I could go on but my off period is over and your kids are coming in.

*Dave Grossman being one.

Where's the "Like" button?

[i8godzilla]

The only food for thought I have on this issue is at the HS level and possibly Jr.HS. There are schools with student populations include gang bangers (or wannabees). Should these feral children find out Mr. Teacher may have a weapon, the results could be very bad. I know concealed means concealed but anything is possible.

[terryg]

The only food for thought I have on this issue is at the HS level and possibly Jr.HS. There are schools with student populations include gang bangers (or wannabees). Should these feral children find out Mr. Teacher may have a weapon, the results could be very bad. I know concealed means concealed but anything is possible.

True ... teachers would likely need to consider deep methods of concealment.

[fickman]

I've been an advocate for this for years.

The only place I feel vulnerable is that CHLers carrying in a school would need to MAKE SURE that they carry ON THEIR BODY and ALWAYS have control of the firearm. My wife was a teacher for a few years before becoming a full time homemaker, and she normally purse carries (we're well aware of the disadvantages of purse carry). In discussing this, I stressed that if a law allowing teachers / faculty / parents with CHLs to carry in schools ever passed, she would have to make sure the firearm was always concealed on her person.

There's too high of a chance of a purse, duffel bag, or backpack being stolen or left unattended. If a coach needed to secure his firearm in a locker, hopefully he'd have a concealed way to transfer it and an advances lock (not just a MasterLock combination).

You'd think this would be common sense, but there's admittedly a large percentage of CHLers (who probably aren't on this forum) that don't understand "concealed is concealed". I've been in sporting good stores, gun shows, and other non-gun related places and hear people openly bragging about concealed carry, and even intentionally failing to conceal. IMO, these habits need to be curtailed community-wide for us to get legal access to the next set of off-limits locales.

[tommyg]

If the gun is securely attached to the licensed person and
concealed then it would be safer to allow licensed carry in a school.
if not on the licensed person then the gun needs to be under lock and key

If a licensed faculty/staff person is carrying in a school and
is careless enough to leave a gun in a brief case purse or other
non secured place then the owner of the weapon should loose their job and be
banned from ever working in a school again CHL revoked and
charged as an accessory to any wrongful act caused by a carelessly secured weapon
Teachers carrying need to register with the school principal that they carry in the school

The trouble makers see schools as easy pickens because on the no guns allowed law.
Remember criminals know more law than the average person after all jails are
a law school of sorts. ( I worked in a reform school for five years and I was an adult
inmate transport driver) The expierences I had were a real eye opener. Concealed
carry should be allowed in schools to protect the kids from Colombine incidents
However the standards for carrying need to be at a higher level with fickman