PROVISIONAL IDPA 3 Gun Rules

[Bob Wolff]

Read this thread on BE

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.p ... opic=54501

Enjoy
Bob

[AggieMM]

For those interested, they are now on revision #5:

IDPA 3-Gun Discussion - Proposal 5

Here is the text of the proposal:

A continuation of this series of proposals, with new stuff added that we have touched on briefly.

This is just the ramblings of one guy. It probably doesn't represent what HQ is thinking, or even what anyone else is thinking. It is a straw man to get y'all to comment and say what makes sense to you.

It hopefully represents what would make a good defensive multi-gun sport. It does not represent the way my equipment is currently set up, because they were set up for a sport with a different purpose.

In the long run, say 10 years down the road, the equipment we all have today, and what we are used to doing in 3-gun matches will not matter. Getting a good set of rules that represents defensive use of pistols, rifles and shotguns will matter in 10 years.

Enough blab:

IDPA DEFENSIVE MULTI-GUN
PROVISIONAL RULES
Proposal 5, Ken Reed 10/26/2007

Course Of Fire Rationale
All CsOF must either simulate a possible real life scenario or test skills that might reasonably be used in a real life self-defense confrontation. If you cannot honestly say, “that could happen,� it probably will not make a good IDPA Multi-Gun stage. We realize that not many self-defense shootings will involve multiple long guns and handguns, but the shooting positions and challenges must be kept reasonable. (borrowed from the writings of Ted Murphy)

SSG: STOCK SERVICE GUN
RIFLE: 5.56 x 45 mm ( .223 ) or larger, with iron sights only
SHOTGUN: Pump only, 12 or 20 gauge, with iron sights only
PISTOL: Any IDPA Legal Pistol or Revolver using IDPA legal capacity

ESG: ENHANCED SERVICE GUN
RIFLE: 5.56 x 45 mm ( .223 ) or larger, with optional single optic
SHOTGUN: Pump or semi-auto, 12 or 20 gauge, with iron sights only
PISTOL: Any IDPA Legal Pistol or Revolver using IDPA legal capacity

HWG: HEAVY WEIGHT GUN
RIFLE: 7.62 x 51 mm ( .308 ) caliber or larger, with optional single optic
SHOTGUN: Pump or semi-auto, 12 gauge only, with iron sights only
PISTOL: CDP or ESR using IDPA legal capacity

LWG: LIGHT WEIGHT GUN
RIFLE: 9 x 19 mm caliber or larger, including the .30 carbine/.30 M1 round, with optional single optic
SHOTGUN: Pump or semi-auto, 20 or 12 gauge, with iron sights only
PISTOL: Any IDPA Legal Pistol or Revolver using IDPA legal capacity

General Rifle Rules
· 10 round limit in mag, 11 rounds max in gun
· No bi-pods
· Gun mounted ammo is allowed, 10 rounds max per magazine
· Redi-Mags, mag cinches, butt cuffs and like products are allowed
· Extra ammo, 10 rounds max per magazine, may be carried on the body in pockets, carriers or in a bag or satchel. However the ammo and carriers can only be acquired after the start signal
· Compensators and Flash Hiders allowed, 1" diameter or less
· Steel targets will not be placed closer than 100 yards
· A majority of shots should occur within 50 yards, but an occasional target out to 100 yards should be encouraged
· Rifles may have lights attached before the start signal, but must be turned on after the start signal.
· Electrically powered optics will not be turned on before the start signal
· No Laser aiming devices
· The configuration of the rifle will not be altered during a match. No parts or accessories will be swapped, added, or removed during a match. Variable power optics will start all stages set to the lowest power setting, but may be adjusted after the start signal.

General Shotgun Rules
· 5 rounds max in mag, 6 rounds max in gun
· Gun mounted ammo is allowed, 6 rounds max on gun
· Side-saddles, forearm and butt cuffs, and like products are allowed
· Extra ammo may be carried on the body in pockets, carriers or in a bag or satchel. However the ammo and carriers can only be acquired after the start signal
· No compensators
· No speed loaders or box magazines
· Steel will not be placed closer than 10 yards when using shot shells
· Steel will not be placed closer than 30 yards when using slugs
· Shot shells will not be used with paper targets
· Only lead pellet shot shells are allowed, including buck shot
· Different ammunition, slugs or shot needed in a course of fire may not be pre-staged in the magazine. The magazine must be loaded with one size and type of ammo at the start.
· A majority of shots should occur within 35 yards, but an occasional target out to 75 yards with slugs should be encouraged
· IDPA rules on maximum percentage of steel targets in a stage, do not apply to shots with a shotgun
· Rifles may have lights attached before the start signal, but must be turned on after the start signal.
· No Laser aiming devices
· The configuration of the shotgun will not be altered during a match. No parts or accessories will be swapped, added, or removed during a match. Adjustable chokes will not be adjusted after the start signal or in between stages.

General Handgun Rules
· If a shotgun or rifle becomes inoperable due to an un-clearable malfunction, breakage, or running out of ammunition, the handgun may be used to complete a stage.
· All IDPA rules apply to IDPA DMG unless otherwise noted in this document, example: reloading rules for pistols will also apply to rifles, example: retain the magazine if there is a round in the chamber, example: use cover if available for shooting and reloading, etc.

General COF Rules
· 18 round maximum per string for pistol only or rifle only strings, 10 rounds for shotgun only strings.
· 23 round maximum per string if two firearms are used in a single string
· 28 round maximum per string if three firearms are used in a single string
· Rifles and shotguns must have a sling if they are carried on the body while another firearm is shot

Classification
· There will be one Classification per shooter for IDPA DMG. A modified IDPA Classifier, that includes rifle, shotgun and pistol is shown below.

A. Stage One -Shotgun.
Position w - 15 yards, Position x – 25 yards
(Bianchi style barricade required.)
String Position Instructions Shots
1 w Load shotgun with shot shells. Start with shotgun pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard. Fire one (1) shot at each popper T4-T5. 3
2 w Load shotgun with shot shells. Start with shotgun pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard. Kneel and fire one (1) shot at each popper T4-T5. 3
3 x (Load 3 slugs MAX in shotgun.) Start with shotgun at low ready pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard. Fire one (1) shot at each paper T1-T3 around either side of the barricade, reload with slugs, and fire one (1) shot at each paper T1-T3 around the other side of the barricade. 6

(When stage drawings are produced, place poppers beside T1, T2 and T3. Place barricade at 25 yards from targets.)

B. Stage Two -Pistol.
10 Yards
String Position Instructions Shots
1 2 Draw and advance toward targets, fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 while moving forward (all shots must be fired while moving) there is a forward fault line at the 5yd line for this string. 6
2 3 Draw and retreat from targets, fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 while retreating (all shots must be fired while moving). 6
3 2 (Load 6 rounds MAX. in pistol) Start back to targets, turn and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3, reload from slide lock and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3. 12
4 2 Draw and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 “STRONG� hand only. 6
(Same as IDPA Classifier Stage Two)

C. Stage Three –Carbine or Rifle.
Position y - 45 yards, Position z – 40 yards
(Bianchi style barricade and 55-gallon Barrel required.)
String Position Instructions Shots
1 y Start with carbine/rifle pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard. Fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from either side of the barricade, TACTICAL LOAD and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from the opposite side of barricade. 12
2 y Start with carbine/rifle pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard.Fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from either side of the barricade, TACTICAL LOAD and advance to Position #z, fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from around either side of 55-gallon barrel. 12
3 z Start with carbine/rifle pointed down range at a 45º angle, safety may be off, but finger must be out of trigger guard. Kneel, and fire 2 shots at each T1 - T3 from around either side of 55-gallon barrel. 6

(DMG Stage 3 is much like IDPA Classifier Stage 3, but the distances have been increased.)

Note: A Bianchi Style Barricade wall is twenty-four (24) inches wide by six (6) feet tall; shooting box is twenty-four (24) inches wide and does not necessarily have to have a back to it.
Note: A standard steel Popper target is forty two (42) inches tall with a 12� diameter center section.


Rationale For This Proposal:
IDPA HG has published a set of Provisional IDPA DMG rules, and asked for suggestions and comments. This proposal is a suggestion to stimulate discussion.

First, the ever popular round limits. Without round limits like seen above, the COF rationale will be followed by very few, and the "defensive" tone of this sport will be forever lost. It seems that the round limits and magazine loading limits have some to do with California's laws and the laws of foreign countries, but are just as important for keeping IDPA DMG true to its purpose. That said, the 18 round maximum per string in the IDPA HQ’s Provisional rules is amended to allow a few more rounds when two and three guns are used in a string.

I can see what others are saying about allowing more rounds in a magazine and more rounds in a stage, and I have been wrestling with this myself. However, I have come to think this single change would then lead to this sport to be exactly like other 3-gun matches. That is, not defensive in nature at all. Most people simply will not design defensive in nature, limited round count stages if there is no rule.

Imagine if IDPA changed to a 35 round maximum round count rule for pistol matches. Instead of the mostly 15-18 round stages we have today, you would start seeing mostly 30-35 round stages. Not a bad thing, but probably not "it could happen" type defensive pistol stages. It would be a hose fest. We already have several handgun sports like that. IDPA is what it is, because of the 18 round maximum imposed, and the max magazine loading rules.

It seems that the world does not need another 3-gun sport like the ones we already have, they are excellent at what they do. Without the rules on round count, that will be what we get, just another one like we already have.

The world may not even need a defensive oriented 3-gun sport, but that is what IDPA HQ wants to find out. It seems that IDPA HQ is hoping to attract new shooters to 3-gun with a simpler, less expensive sport. This is similar to the way they attracted handgun shooters to IDPA with a simpler less expensive sport than existed before. The formula is known to work.

Second, ammo for reloading. When a long gun is used for self-defense, the defender will probably not take time to put on a tactical vest. They may however pickup ammo with their gun and carry it along with them or transfer it to the body. It seems that on-gun ammo is a logical choice for self-defense as well.

Third, equipment divisions. How many is too many, and how restrictive should they be? Four is a lot, but that number seems to make sense, to give everyone a place to play. SSG is the most basic division, and probably the least expensive equipment wise. ESG is like ESP is today, an experimenters’ playground. HVG is heavy metal, a hard recoiling rifle and handgun with a manually operated shotgun. A testosterone division if you will. LWG is another experimenters’ division. Which includes the easy to shoot carbine that may give up a lot at 50 yards and beyond. Since the .30 carbine has about the same power factor and energy as the .357 Magnum round, it is grouped into LWG.

Fourth, shotgun sights. It seems that very few people have optics on their self-defense shotgun. For whatever reason optics on a shotgun are not popular for self-defense. They may indeed be a competitive advantage, but we are trying to set up self-defense shotguns, not race shotguns.

Fifth, shooter classification. The only thing that seems certain is that there should be one Classification per Mulitgun shooter, not a separate one for each type of firearm. Aggregating these individual classifications together would be arbitrary at best and not useful at worst.

Sixth, when to turn on optics. In an unexpected self-defense situation, a person would have to turn on their electrical optics after they knew something was amiss. Thus it makes sense to have these optics off at the start signal. This may indeed be a competitive disadvantage, much like it would be a disadvantage at home.

Your thoughts, objections, suggestions and comments are why we are here!


Edited to partially fix the mangling of the classifier table.

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[jimlongley]

When I was involved with Collin County IDPA we came up with these rules:

Collin County IDPA Rifle and Shotgun Rules
Approved by the Collin County IDPA Board of Directors July 6th, 2002. Effective August 6th, 2002.

Principles and Spirit of Competition
To provide a playing field for the use and practice of practical defense Rifles and Shotguns in Defensive situations/scenarios.

General Guidelines
These rules are intended for defensive rifle and shotgun use. Safety Officers (SOs) may request the Match Director (MD) to inspect any firearms, ammunition, accessories, holders and other equipment and gear for compliance with the spirit of this competition. The decision of the MD as to the appropriateness of said equipment, and its use in this competition, will be final.

During the time that CCIDPA has a scheduled match there is to be no automatic-action firing anywhere on the gun range by CCIDPA rifle or shotgun match participants without the permission and supervision (presence) of the owner of the range (or an authorized range employee).

General Equipment Rules
1. The firearm must comply with federal, state, and local laws. If any part, configuration, etc. is illegal, then the entire firearm is illegal and is banned from the match. The intentional violation of this rule may lead to the violator being banned from any further competition or involvement with CCIDPA.

2. Automatic actions, subject to General Equipment Rule 1, may be used in semi-automatic mode ONLY.

3. Trigger activation devices including but not limited to "Hellfire" and "Tri-Burst" are prohibited.

4. Bipods or resting devices of any kind may not be attached to the firearm or used in competition. This includes, but is not limited to tripods, mono-pods, or shooting sticks.

5. There shall be no limitation on barrel length, diameter, or overall length of the firearm, other than that it must comply with General Equipment Rule 1.

6. Detachable, hinged, folding, or telescopic shoulder stocks shall be permitted provided they are deemed safe and do not when detached or folded violate General Equipment Rule 1.

7. The firearm must remain in the same configuration for the duration of the match. Changing of slings, uppers, lowers, barrels, chokes, sights, and/or any other significant component between or during stages is prohibited.

8. Slings are required.

9. No restrictions are placed on the position or type of carrying devices for magazines or ammunition, but all equipment may have to pass a standard retention test. Magazines and spare ammo must start in some form of carrier (pockets are allowed). They may not be held in the teeth, hand(s), under arms or between legs, etc. They may not be stowed (dumped) down a shirt or undershirt.

10. Extended magazine release buttons, safety catches, bolt release/locking devices, and/or cocking handles shall be allowed, provided they have been fitted without modification to the upper or lower receivers.

Rifle Equipment Rules
1. Iron sights that have tritium-dot or fiber-optic inserts shall be allowed. Optical sights of the red-dot and tritium-dot reflex type shall be allowed. Any kind of telescopic sight is prohibited.

2. Muzzle brakes, compensators and flash-hiders shall be allowed, subject to General Equipment Rule 1.

3. The minimum caliber for a rifle shall be .223 / 5.56mm. Rifles must fire centerfire rifle ammunition. Tracer, incendiary, armor-piercing or steel-jacketed ammunition is prohibited. A maximum caliber may be imposed due to range safety rules/restrictions or range equipment rules. Ammunition must meet a minumum power factor of 150 (Bullet weight in grains multiplied by muzzle velocity in feet per second, divided by 1,000).

4. The magazine shall not be loaded to a capacity greater than 30 rounds. The stage description may require a magazine capacity less than the maximum.

Shotgun Equipment Rules
1. Optical sights of any kind are prohibited, including any form of telescopic sight. Iron sights with tritium-dot or fiber-optic inserts shall be allowed.

2. The minimum gauge for shotguns shall be 20 gauge.

3. Lead shot and slugs only. Lead shot larger than #6 is prohibited. Steel shot, buckshot or jacketed slugs are prohibited.

4. Muzzle brakes or ported choke tubes are prohibited.

5. The loading/reloading of a fixed magazine is to be done without the use of any mechanical aids such as "speed-feeders" that will insert more that one round into the shotgun in a single movement.

6. The shotgun magazine tube shall not extend past the end of the barrel. The shotgun shall not be loaded to a capacity greater than 8 rounds (7 in the tube and 1 in the chamber). The stage description may require a shotgun capacity less than the maximum.

Match Rules
1. All firearms shall be unloaded and remain cased or have their actions OPEN with the muzzle UP at all times, unless and until directed otherwise by a Safety Officer; Matches will be conducted using a "cold range."

2. Range Commands:

"Load and Make Ready"
The competitor will face downrange, fit hearing protection, etc., unsling firearm (if applicable), point muzzle downrange or in the direction specified by the Safety Officer, turn optics ON (if applicable), load or fill the magazine, load chamber, and place safety catch on safe. The competitor will then assume the required position the stage dictates.
"Shooter Ready?"
The competitor will nod or otherwise clearly indicate that he or she is ready to begin the course of fire.

"Stand By"
The competitor will remain motionless until the start signal indicates that he or she should begin the course of fire. The start signal will normally be the buzzer or beep of the shot timer controlled by the Safety Officer, but other audible or visual start signals may be used at the discretion of the match director.

"Unload and Show Clear"
Upon completion of the course of fire, the competitor will unload the firearm and lock or hold open the action to allow the Safety Officer to inspect the chamber. On the Safety Officer's command, the action will then be closed and the hammer dropped by pulling the trigger. The action will then be re-opened and locked and remain in an OPEN position if the firearm design makes this possible. If the action cannot be locked in the OPEN position a "chamber-empty" plug or flag must be used, or the firearm must be cased before leaving the line. The firearm will then be handed to a Safety Officer who will remove it from the line and place it in a rack.

3. A "Standard Start" will be both hands on the firearm, safety ON, firearm pointing down-range with fingers outside of the trigger guard. The competitor will start standing upright. This will be the start position for all stages unless the course description dictates otherwise.

4. Stages may have loaded or unloaded starts. In an unloaded start, the competitor must not be touching their ammo, magazines or ammo loading devices. An "unloaded start" means the chamber is empty of any ammunition, action open and the safety on.

5. If a competitor's firearm becomes unservicable during the match, a similar firearm may be substituted at the discretion of the Match Director.

6. If a competitor's gun malfunctions, the competitor may clear the malfunction and continue or, if the malfunction cannot be cleared, may elect to re-shoot the stage. One (1) reshoot per shooter per match will be allowed, at the discretion of the Match Director. (Note: Due to safety concerns, a shooter experiencing a malfunction during a CCIDPA 3-gun match must either clear the malfunction or stop and re-shoot the stage. Weapon transition drills, where a shooter transitions to a secondary weapon if the primary weapon malfunctions, will be simulated using dummy rounds in a controlled manner. Transitions in response to malfunctions will not be permitted during the normal course of a match.)

7. Three-gun competitors are expected to remain near the firing line, and to help tape or reset targets while not actually shooting or preparing to shoot. While CCIDPA often runs IDPA matches concurrently with 3-gun matches, the practice of shooters shooting in both matches is difficult to manage, and places additional burdens on the match administrators of both matches. Therefore, starting with the January 29, 2005 three-gun match, you may participate in one match or the other, but not both.

[jimlongley]

Those rules (above) worked well enough for our purposes.

I do have to wonder at Enos' limitation of ten rounds in rifles and 6 in shotguns, although that does accomodate off the rack "house guns" and such and cuts down on the equipment races we have seen in our three gun matches, I also think that it would be better to have two categories - ie: "high capacity" and "limited capacity."

I also think there should be dual categories of HWG and LWG, "iron sight" and "optional optic," for those of us who want to shoot unmodified Garands and Carbines. I have competed in three gun matches with my Garand and outshot ARs and AKs even with iron sights and an eight round capacity, and also with my M1 Carbine with 15 round mags.

My shotgun is capable of mounting optics and has a magazine capacity, off the rack, of eight rounds, which is what I keep it loaded to for home defense.

I will send these comments to Enos too.

Here's me competing with the above mentioned Garand,

I would also be willing to take my Springfield out against others in a "bolt on bolt" match.

I also wonder if changing from optics to iron sights during a stage would be acceptable, I had to during my last match, due to failure of my optic sight.

[Bob Wolff]

The original set of provisional rules came from HQ and were ditributed to start a discussion.

There is another thread on http://p075.ezboard.com/Provisional-3-G ... forumfrm39 that also discusses these set of rules.

I do not disagree with the classes as set up but 10 round mags?? That is not how my house AR is set up.

A big part of the fun of the multigun match we shoot is round count and transitions.

Bob

[jbirds1210]

I am assuming that the 10-round limit is to allow every state in the country to play?

[NcongruNt]

I am assuming that the 10-round limit is to allow every state in the country to play?

That's a good point.