Legal question from applicant

[match308]

Hello all. Thanks in advance for any recommendation. I have a prospective applicant that has inquired about taking my next CHL class. He asked if a previous felony would bar him from CHL issue. I asked him what kind of crime and he stated drug possession over 10 years ago and got deferred adjudication. This man seems to be very honorable and holds a medical license. I read the section on eligibility regarding this, but I'm confused. What should I tell him? Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

[boomerang]

He may be eligible. See the first section at the top of the page. http://www.state.tx.us/txdps/chl/qualifyInfo.html
(Title 5 is crimes against the person and chapter 29 is robbery)

He can call DPS and ask them to be sure..

[Greybeard]

At last renewal school, we were told not to give opinions on questionable eligibility, to get potential applicants to contact DPS about it.

[Keith B]

That does bring up an interesting point! A felony over 10 years ago and being clear from the criminal system based on the CHL regulatory requirements, that applicant can apply, do finger prints and attend a CHL class. The State of Texas shall ask for further information from the applicant, meeting the above requirements the State "may", issue a CHL License. Now the Federal side would say Felony equals loss of right to search and seizure, subject to drug screening, no voting and never own or posses a firearm while on parole, after completing the State requirements of the Felony. The above may vote, regain right to privacy under the constitution but "shall not" posses or own a firearm/Explosives. so it begs the question "how can a applicant own a firearm and purchase ammo to qualify during a CHL class? Because a CHL license bypasses a criminal check at the Gun shop counter! Unless a CHL Instructor rents or does loner guns to students, NOT good!
It's like an undocumented person with a Fake SSN comes to Texas to get a Real Drivers License, then moves to another state and turns that license in for another Real Drivers License in order to apply for federal aid, student loans, ect.. I guess The Social Security Administration is a Benefit program. My apologies, on a soap box. I hope this helps!

When the federal background check is performed on the individual it should flag the DPS that the person is not legally able to posses a firearm and in turn the DPS hsould reject the applicaiton. If the person failed to list the conviction on the CHL applicaiton, then they are guilty of falsifying a governement document and may be charged. The individual taking the CHL should know that they are prohibited from possessing/owning firearms, and if they come to a CHL class and rent or borrow a handgun, then they are violating the law and should be arrested. If you unknowingly let them shoot a gun in class under false pretense, then IMO you are not liable.

[sjfcontrol]

That does bring up an interesting point! A felony over 10 years ago and being clear from the criminal system based on the CHL regulatory requirements, that applicant can apply, do finger prints and attend a CHL class. The State of Texas shall ask for further information from the applicant, meeting the above requirements the State "may", issue a CHL License. Now the Federal side would say Felony equals loss of right to search and seizure, subject to drug screening, no voting and never own or posses a firearm while on parole, after completing the State requirements of the Felony. The above may vote, regain right to privacy under the constitution but "shall not" posses or own a firearm/Explosives. so it begs the question "how can a applicant own a firearm and purchase ammo to qualify during a CHL class? Because a CHL license bypasses a criminal check at the Gun shop counter! Unless a CHL Instructor rents or does loner guns to students, NOT good!
It's like an undocumented person with a Fake SSN comes to Texas to get a Real Drivers License, then moves to another state and turns that license in for another Real Drivers License in order to apply for federal aid, student loans, ect.. I guess The Social Security Administration is a Benefit program. My apologies, on a soap box. I hope this helps!

GC 411.172(a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person... (3) has not been convicted of a felony.

Convicted adult felons are permanently ineligible.

[sjfcontrol]

there is bit more to the Eligibility requirement
(13) has not, in the 10 years preceding the date of application, been
adjudicated as having engaged in delinquent conduct violating a penal
law of the grade of felony; and
(14)
has not made any material misrepresentation, or failed to
disclose any material fact, in an application submitted pursuant to Section
411.174.

That (13) only applies to juveniles (juvenile delinquent felony convictions)

[JALLEN]

Is a "deferred adjudication" a conviction of a felony?

My understanding, derived from a former Mayor who just got deferred adjudication for looting her deceased husband's charitable trust to support a gambling habit gone berserk, is that if the accused performs as required in the deferred adjudication order, the charge is dismissed, like it never even happened. No conviction.

[Keith B]

Is a "deferred adjudication" a conviction of a felony?

My understanding, derived from a former Mayor who just got deferred adjudication for looting her deceased husband's charitable trust to support a gambling habit gone berserk, is that if the accused performs as required in the deferred adjudication order, the charge is dismissed, like it never even happened. No conviction.

In Texas a deffered adjudicaiton is the same as a conviction for a CHL.

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(1) “Action” means single action, revolver, or semi-automatic action.
(2) “Chemically dependent person” means a person who frequently or repeatedly becomes intoxicated by excessive indulgence in alcohol or uses controlled substances or dangerous drugs so as to acquire a fixed habit and an involuntary tendency to become intoxicated or use those substances as often as the opportunity is presented.
(3) “Concealed handgun” means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.
(4) “Convicted” means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided, or sealed under any state or federal law.(4-a) “Federal judge” means:
(A) a judge of a United States court of appeals;
(B) a judge of a United States district court;
(C) a judge of a United States bankruptcy court; or
(D) a magistrate judge of a United States district court.
(4-b) “State judge” means:
(A) the judge of an appellate court, a district court, or a county court at law of this state;
(B) an associate judge appointed under Chapter 201, Family Code; or
(C) a justice of the peace.
(5) “Handgun” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01, Penal Code.
(6) “Intoxicated” has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01, Penal Code.
(7) “Qualified handgun instructor” means a person who is certified to instruct in the use of handguns by the department.
(8) *[repealed by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, §9.02.]

GC § 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171, if an order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person on a date not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's application for a license under this subchapter unless the order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person for:
(1) a felony offense under:
(A) Title 5, Penal Code; (Offenses against the person)
(B) Chapter 29, Penal Code; (Robbery)
(C) Section 25.07, Penal Code; (Violation of Protective Order) or
(D) Section 30.02, Penal Code, (Burglary) if the offense is punishable under Subsection (c)(2) or (d) of that section; or
(2) an offense under the laws of another state if the offense contains elements that are substantially similar to the elements of an offense listed in Subdivision (1).

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a legal resident of this state for the six-month period preceding the date of application under this subchapter or is otherwise eligible for a license under Section 411.173(a);
(2) is at least 21 years of age;
(3) has not been convicted of a felony;

So, there are exceptions that will allow you to be elligable for a CHL in Texas, but if you have not had your rights restored at a federal level and are prohibited from owning a firearm, then you will not be elligble and in violation by touching one if you try to take the CHL class.

[Panda]

Was this bumped five years later by a spammer who got banned or what am I missing?

[MamaK]

Was this bumped five years later by a spammer who got banned or what am I missing?

Sometimes in the forum screen, before you click to post, it will display a recent date. I will try to SS it when it happens. Could be a necroposter, or could be a poster who isn't as familiar with what necroposting is. I see that a lot on my other forums that I've been frequenting for more years than I care to admit. (and even among "internet savy coworkers" - one of which I fixed a bent pin on her monitor cable. She was upset that her plug wouldn't fit into her desktop so she kept jamming it in there; I found a new use for forceps. but the point is that she considers herself computer savy, and in relation to medical billing and databases she is a guru, however I wouldn't try to correlate that to physical peripherals or even in this case, what qualifies as abnormal, unpleasant, or even obnoxious forum behavior.) I hope this makes sense and isn't taken as an insult to anyones internet usage capabilities.


Keith B, you write in a similar manner as one of my professors... =)

[Keith B]

Keith B, you write in a similar manner as one of my professors... =)

Go talk to your counselor quickly and tell them you need to change classes and get a smarter proffesor!

[Crossfire]

Was this bumped five years later by a spammer who got banned or what am I missing?

Yes

[MamaK]

Keith B, you write in a similar manner as one of my professors... =)

Go talk to your counselor quickly and tell them you need to change classes and get a smarter proffesor!

LOL I'm quite fond of my professors because they are experienced in the subject matter so they can explain real world uses for the topics. A counselor hmmm how about an Art Therapist so I can play with fingerpaints, or maybe dolls.