I love looking suspicious

[gigag04]

I was trying to find some friends at a house behind Northgate (the bar area of College Station) at like 230 am. I was lost and had turned around a few times.

I passed the same cruiser twice during my quest, and after the second time, I turned around in a church parking lot, and the cruiser came charging in, blocking the exit with the big 'ol bright take-down lights on.

My windows were down since its nice in the evening, and the LEO comes up and shines his maglight right in my face. I had not had any drinks, nor was I speeding, I'm sure they were looking for drunks, and they were generally polite, but I cared little for the aggressive way in which they took me down.

His female partner circled my superduty shining her light in my bed, under my toolbox, helping herself to look around for something with which to bust me.

He never asked me for ID so I didn't give him my CHL, nor did I mention that I had a loaded XD9 SC inches below the window through which he was blinding me.

All in all - I wasn't scared, per another post I put up about not reacting to LEO's as elites, it was actually a good time, as I knew they couldn't do anything to me - not drinking, not speeding, seat belt on, tags current, CHL with me.

CSPD always seems like they are gung-ho about stuff like this.

-nick

[BobCat]

Nick,

You sound like a college student. Having been young once myself, all I can say is enjoy it - but forget any notions about their not being "able to do anything" to you. They can do whatever they please, including taking you in, putting you in a cell, and holding you while they "check for outstanding warrants" or whatever. Finding none, they will let you go - but in the meantime you lost your freedom until they had to give it back.

Stay polite - I am not advising you to be a worm or weasel, just a polite citizen - but don't get cocky. Even if you are doing/have done *nothing* wrong, if they feel that your attitude is not what it ought to be, there are perfectly-legal ways they can "put the fear of g-d into you" if they want to.

This sounds like I'm jumping on you and I'm not - your post just gave me the cold creeps on the back of my neck, you sound like a nice guy skating on thin ice.

Regards,
Andrew

[anygunanywhere]

Nick,

They can do whatever they please, including taking you in, putting you in a cell, and holding you while they "check for outstanding warrants" or whatever.

Since when? I do believe Nick is covered by constitutional rights. If you have experienced anything such as you described, you really should have had an attorney. LEO can not, as you say, do whatever they please, unless you submit and give up your rights. Taking the bait during LEO fishing expeditions is a common way folks subject themselves to the whims of certain, not all, LEO. There is a wealth of information on the internet having to do with your rights during stops and what is allowed by LEO as far as searches and questions. Your knowing your rights is where your ability to protect yourself begins.

This sounds like I'm jumping on you and I'm not - your post just gave me the cold creeps on the back of my neck, you sound like a nice guy skating on thin ice.

Sounds to me like Nick is a man enjoying his freedoms. Bobcat, we would really like to understand why you believe the way you do. It might make for some interesting discussions, since several LEO frequent this site.

[stevie_d_64]

Bobcat is right...Its better to remain as polite, calm during a "stop"...

To embelish even more, I personally go out of my way not to give them any more excuse to do anymore than this, for them to return to the "warm and fuzzy" feeling before they noticed you...

If he/she, and their partner are going around looking for something "visible", so be it...I cannot tell them they cannot do that without a warrant...As soon as you start coming off as someone who thinks they know something "legal"...You've just given them something else to wonder about...And that brings the whole kit and kaboodle into the fraycuss...

Nick is a good guy here...He contributes a lot to discussions and his input and stories are most welcome in my opinion...He's a lot like me when I was that age...And that was not too long ago...

He knows I'll put him in his place if he gets outta line...

[txinvestigator]

I was trying to find some friends at a house behind Northgate (the bar area of College Station) at like 230 am. I was lost and had turned around a few times.

I passed the same cruiser twice during my quest, and after the second time, I turned around in a church parking lot, and the cruiser came charging in, blocking the exit with the big 'ol bright take-down lights on.

My windows were down since its nice in the evening, and the LEO comes up and shines his maglight right in my face. I had not had any drinks, nor was I speeding, I'm sure they were looking for drunks, and they were generally polite, but I cared little for the aggressive way in which they took me down.

His female partner circled my superduty shining her light in my bed, under my toolbox, helping herself to look around for something with which to bust me.

He never asked me for ID so I didn't give him my CHL, nor did I mention that I had a loaded XD9 SC inches below the window through which he was blinding me.

All in all - I wasn't scared, per another post I put up about not reacting to LEO's as elites, it was actually a good time, as I knew they couldn't do anything to me - not drinking, not speeding, seat belt on, tags current, CHL with me.

CSPD always seems like they are gung-ho about stuff like this.

-nick

I am glad the experience turned out well. I am curious if you felt the LEO's were out of line in checking you out?

[anygunanywhere]

Bobcat is right...Its better to remain as polite, calm during a "stop"...

True. I agree.

If he/she, and their partner are going around looking for something "visible", so be it

If it is visible I do not have an issue either.

As soon as you start coming off as someone who thinks they know something "legal"...You've just given them something else to wonder about...And that brings the whole kit and kaboodle into the fraycuss

I disagree. LEO are trained to know what they can and can not do...what is allowed with and without a warrant. Most folks do not know what their rights aare with respect to search and seizure and readily submit to searches. A lot, not all, LEO will use this to obtain permission to search when you can say no.

Nick is a good guy here...He contributes a lot to discussions and his input and stories are most welcome in my opinion...He's a lot like me when I was that age...And that was not too long ago...

Beyond all doubt!!

In my experience, whenever I was asked to submit to vehicle searches, I was a young buck out usually up to mischief of one kind or another. Now that I am much more mature and sensible, thanks in large part to Mrs. Anygunanywhere, I have never been asked to submit to a vehicle search. However, a close friend at work was grilled by DPS in a county East of Harris and West of Jefferson just because he was driving a rental (work related) and obeying the limit. The trooper asked several fishing questions and asked to search his vehicle. He gave permission but the trooper decided not to.

You can stand up for your rights, and be polite and courteous, and give respect at the same time. Just because you are stopped by LEO does not mean your rights go away. The SCOTUS has issued specific decisions based on traffic stops. Google Terry, 4th amendment and other topics and save the info. I keep a 2nd and 4th amendment file on my hard drive just packed full of this stuff and I review it regularly.

[BobCat]

Nick,

They can do whatever they please, including taking you in, putting you in a cell, and holding you while they "check for outstanding warrants" or whatever.

Since when? I do believe Nick is covered by constitutional rights. If you have experienced anything such as you described, you really should have had an attorney. LEO can not, as you say, do whatever they please, unless you submit and give up your rights. Taking the bait during LEO fishing expeditions is a common way folks subject themselves to the whims of certain, not all, LEO. There is a wealth of information on the internet having to do with your rights during stops and what is allowed by LEO as far as searches and questions. Your knowing your rights is where your ability to protect yourself begins.

This sounds like I'm jumping on you and I'm not - your post just gave me the cold creeps on the back of my neck, you sound like a nice guy skating on thin ice.

Sounds to me like Nick is a man enjoying his freedoms. Bobcat, we would really like to understand why you believe the way you do. It might make for some interesting discussions, since several LEO frequent this site.

Many years ago (like thirty) in a far away place (like Chicago), I got stopped and detained for about an hour by two very nice Chicago Police Officers, who kept threatening to "take me downtown" to check for oustanding warrants. They did not ask to search my pickup but I would probably have consented, having nothing to hide and no idea of standing up for my rights in principle.

Since I had no outstanding (or any other kind of) warrants, I simply continued to be polite, act like I did not know what they wanted, and make it clear I was not looking for any trouble. All they wanted was a few bucks to leave me alone - but I was too naive to be certain and too reluctant to step over the line by offering a bribe (I knew it was illegal but that it was also the accepted thing to do - I wanted to stay legal).

They eventaully got disgusted and left me alone. A few more instances like this during my youth, along with similar tales from my contemporaries, convinced me that "insisting on my rights" was a good way to make a lot of trouble for myself. I think this is true for young people, since nothing of this sort has happened to me in years.

In a slightly later time frame, in the same city, a number of minority youths were seen standing on the street corner "making gang signs." They failed to answer the officers - kept making signs at them - and got beaten up pretty well; and Cook County Hospital isn't a whole lot better than Cook County Jail. Turned out, they were deaf kids signing to each other while they waited for the city bus, to take them to their special school. It was a "tragic mistake." No reprimands.

Once learns to pick one's fights. When the situation is *real* you really do have to insist on your rights, and defend them vigorously; but when it is just a matter of letting someone throw his weight around while you play dumb and act stupid, it is not worth starting trouble. And make no mistake - you may "win" in the end, but there *will* be trouble, and it will be your word against that of a sworn Law Enforcement Officer. They may not be exactly able to "do as they please" without repercussions, but if they put you in the hospital and later get reprimanded, is that a win?

Please - I'm not trying to bash LEOs or paint with too broad a brush. I read Nick's post and his glee at having nothing for which they could roust him made me queasy. A bag of dried weeds can appear in your glove compartment out of nowhere, depending on what city you are in and who (what individual) you are dealing with. One is better off being polite and keeping one's distance, than seeming to challenge the officer: "Do your worst, I've done nothing wrong, you can't do anything to me!" is a provocative attitude.

anygun, I hope this is a satisfactory answer. All the best.

Regards,
Andrew

[stevie_d_64]

As soon as you start coming off as someone who thinks they know something "legal"...You've just given them something else to wonder about...And that brings the whole kit and kaboodle into the fraycuss

I disagree. LEO are trained to know what they can and can not do...what is allowed with and without a warrant. Most folks do not know what their rights aare with respect to search and seizure and readily submit to searches. A lot, not all, LEO will use this to obtain permission to search when you can say no.

I dissagree with your dissagreement...But I do know LEO's are "trained" to properly disseminate and evaluate situations...

But how they react is an entirely different issue...And thats where many have a little rub sometimes...

For the most part I don't have a problem with the issue as a whole...

[gigag04]

I am glad the experience turned out well. I am curious if you felt the LEO's were out of line in checking you out?

No - not at all, and the guy talking to me was cool enough once he realized I wasn't a drunk. It was definately approached from a "here we go lets get this punk" mentality, but I never got rude, cocky or stopped showing respect.

I have decided it is possible to respect someone without elevating them to the status of super citizen.

I guess to clarify and maybe make more sense, I think my "change of heart" regarding being stopped by LEO's is more internal. I still, and and always tag a sir/ma'am onto my sentences, never be belligerent, and definately not be confrontational. Now, however, I just realize, its not that big of a deal, and take a more carefree approach.

Sorry if it sounded like I thought I was a super hero or I was going to be disrespective during future interactions.

I didn't take anything as coming down on me, and I appreciate everyone's input!

-nick

[gigag04]

Nick is a good guy here...He contributes a lot to discussions and his input and stories are most welcome in my opinion...He's a lot like me when I was that age...And that was not too long ago...

He knows I'll put him in his place if he gets outta line...

I'm your huckleberry

(more Tombstone)

-nick

[stevie_d_64]

Nick is a good guy here...He contributes a lot to discussions and his input and stories are most welcome in my opinion...He's a lot like me when I was that age...And that was not too long ago...

He knows I'll put him in his place if he gets outta line...

I'm your huckleberry

(more Tombstone)

-nick

"Your a daisy if you do..."

"Say when..."

"The strain was more than he could bear..."

[anygunanywhere]

Methinks we are all on the same page here, just varying in our approach and level of tolerance.

Stevie, I have spent time behind bars after being railroaded in Alabama by a power crazed hick officer. I was in the navy, on my way home to wed Mrs. Anygun. I had a six pack in the chest, bought on base - no tax stamp. Goober pulled me over at 2 am, found the beer, arrested me for "bootlegging" - transporting untaxed alcohol across state lines.

Since we are all a product of our environment, we all will approach situations differently. I just will not allow myself to go through any such experience again.

Just like Nick said, be polite and courteous.

Just know what your rights are.

Stevie, sounds like Chicago is as rough as we all hear!

I still would like to hear from Bobcat.

[BobCat]

anygunanywhere said:

"Stevie, sounds like Chicago is as rough as we all hear!

I still would like to hear from Bobcat."

Sorry, I must have messed up when I quoted you, when I answered. That was me making ugly comments about Chicago, not Stevie. And I admit it was years ago and the situation might be very different these days (but I'm cynical enough to doubt it).

Been thinking about this discussion and I have to add/clarify:

In a social setting - meeting at the range, being introduced by friends at a party, running into each other at Home Depot - I do not treat LEOs any different from anyone else.

In a "professional" encounter - a traffic stop, or being stopped on the street because I look suspicious - I'm very careful to be polite and neutral. The reason is that in the "professional" encounter, the officer is approaching with the idea that I may have done something wrong; otherwise there would be no stop. In such a situation, being flippant or dismissive ("you have nothing on me") seems to me to be a mistake; the officer already thinks I may have done something wrong, and is looking for evidence of it. Finding nothing, he might "assume" (maybe because of youth [not any more] or appearance [fat old white guy w/cowboy hat]) that I've done wrong, but he just can't figure out what, and be frustrated enough to act against his better judgement.

Almost every time I post, I wind up having to explain what I meant and try to smooth over whatever I stirred up (without meaning to). Maybe that means I don't express my meaning very well.

Regards,
Andrew (aka BobCat)

[anygunanywhere]

Stevie, Andrew,

Sorry for the mixup. I have not had my coffee quota yet.

'Preciate the post, Andrew. You do express yourself very well. I am a detail oriented person.

[stevie_d_64]

Stevie, Andrew,

Sorry for the mixup. I have not had my coffee quota yet.

'Preciate the post, Andrew. You do express yourself very well. I am a detail oriented person.

Figures...

My problem is I do not express myself very well...Approaching middle-age has soured me somewhat...

Where did Chicago come into play here??? I did my "boot" at Great Lakes RTC, and thought the ice and snow would kill me...I blamed the recuiter for the timing...