Transcript of DC vs Heller Oral Argument

[ELB]

Here:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/oral_argu ... 07-290.pdf

[dukesean]

thanks!

[Kalrog]

Just finished it... enlightening.

[bpet]

Thanks from me as well.

I just spent the last hour reading it and find it difficult to believe that DC couldn't find a better person than Dellinger to do their brief. You would think that unless they believed all along that they had no chance of winning, they would have put their first string into the game.

[Liberty]

Thanks from me as well.

I just spent the last hour reading it and find it difficult to believe that DC couldn't find a better person than Dellinger to do their brief. You would think that unless they believed all along that they had no chance of winning, they would have put their first string into the game.

They are trying to defend the indefensible., almost any legitimate constitutional scholar understands the 2nd amendment really means what it says and that the 2nd ammendment can only really be an individual right. They fired the respected original lead lawyer because the DC DA had some unrelated political issues with him.

You can read about it here:

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2008/ ... son-i.html

The timing was pretty stupid to it was just before the briefs were due.

[bpet]

Liberty,

While I accept your position on their argument being indefensible, I will also admit I have a bias and things have always seemed pretty cut and dry to me.

There has been considerable consternation even within this forum as to how the court would rule. I seems that DC simply conceded defeat early and put on a show because they were committed. I think we can all agree that Mr. Dellinger's performance should not be something he adds to his resume.

As to the wisdom of making the change, I guess you summed it up pretty well when you said "The timing was pretty stupid to it was just before the briefs were due." Really makes one stop and think about other decisions being made in the host city of our nation's capital.

[tomneal]

I have watched the CSPAN version and am recording it on my DVR.
I listened to some on
http://www.downrange.tv/rkba/dc-v-heller.htm

CSPAN was nice because they put up the pictures of the justices asking questions.


Physical
I suspect that each of the lawyers coming out of the court room felt "used up". To be presenting a case to 8 (Justice Thomas doesn't ask questions) very vocal justices, that interrupted you with hundreds of questions, seems like it would use you up.

You couldn't really tell which way the questions were pointed. Except that Ginsburg doesn't like the idea of machine guns.

Paul Drew Clement from the AG's office said that it would be difficult to make a case that machine guns, the current issue arm of the military, was not protected under the 2nd.

Alan Gura, Heller's lawyer, didn't make as strong a case as I would have hoped. He did state that DC did not appeal the overturning of the long gun trigger lock provision.

Walter E. Dellinger, DC's lawyer had an impossible task, but tried hard. He did say that he could remove a trigger lock and load a gun in 3 seconds. One of the justices commented that he would need to turn on the light and put on his reading glasses. The comment drew chuckles.

Note to self.
Design a USPSA Stage. Start with an unloaded, "trigger locked", gun and engage target at 5 yards in 3 seconds.

[bpet]

...

Walter E. Dellinger, DC's lawyer had an impossible task, but tried hard. He did say that he could remove a trigger lock and load a gun in 3 seconds. One of the justices commented that he would need to turn on the light and put on his reading glasses. The comment drew chuckles.

Note to self.
Design a USPSA Stage. Start with an unloaded, "trigger locked", gun and engage target at 5 yards in 3 seconds.

I'm thinking there may be some toung-in-cheek english put on that last statement. Put me on the list of people who want to see that happen.

I seriously doubt that Mr. Dellinger ever timed any attempt to unlock his pistol and rather than admit he didn't have a clue how long it would take, simply made up a number. I don't think this was lost on the judges.

[tomneal]

I am thinking about bringing every gun lock variation I can find,
setting them up on a safe table
letting the shooters try them and decide which one to try with their loaded gun.

Trigger lock "Bill Drill"

Start position
Loaded magazine on table
unloaded gun with trigger lock on table
one hand touching table the other on the timer

Self start

On signal, unlock, load, and fire up to 6 rounds in 3 seconds.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Thanks from me as well.

I just spent the last hour reading it and find it difficult to believe that DC couldn't find a better person than Dellinger to do their brief. You would think that unless they believed all along that they had no chance of winning, they would have put their first string into the game.

I think that DC went all out to try to win the case. Remmeber, they had a lot of discussions with The Brady Bunch who tried to pursuade them to render the case moot by relaxing their laws just a bit. This was because the Bradys figured the case for a loser from the get go.

The reason Dellinger was up there with such poor arguments was because like in so many other areas, the DC government is simply incompetent. These people would have trouble finding their backsides with both hands. This manifests itself in all aspects of DC government, from the hopelessly failing schools to the high taxes, to the low clearance rate for violent crimes, etc., etc., etc.

[dukesean]

Alan Gura, Heller's lawyer, didn't make as strong a case as I would have hoped. He did state that DC did not appeal the overturning of the long gun trigger lock provision.

I'd have to agree, I thought Gura could have been a lot more eloquent. Seems like he stumbled a bit at times and had to get help from Kennedy

Still, most of the significant arguments are made in the briefs, and we have plenty of very good lawyers working hard on our side to be thankful for.

So what is the next step? Does it just go behind closed doors for a few months and then one day they'll announce their ruling?

[bpet]

I am thinking about bringing every gun lock variation I can find,
setting them up on a safe table
letting the shooters try them and decide which one to try with their loaded gun.

Trigger lock "Bill Drill"

Start position
Loaded magazine on table
unloaded gun with trigger lock on table
one hand touching table the other on the timer

Self start

On signal, unlock, load, and fire up to 6 rounds in 3 seconds.

I'd be willing to give that a try, but I'll bet I couldn't beat 8 - 10 seconds.

I guess that still sounds better than:

No your honor I haven't tried it.

No your honor, 8 - 10 seconds is a guess.

Actually your honor, I haven't a clue how long it would take but I'm sure the bad guy would run away just knowing that I was in the process of getting things ready to shoot him.

[ELB]

So what is the next step? Does it just go behind closed doors for a few months and then one day they'll announce their ruling?

Yes, basically, as I understand it. The justices will kick it around, eventually a couple positions will coalesce, and one of the Justices will be assigned to write the majority opinion. I have read that some justices assign their clerks to do their writing. (Might be interesting to see who does this, given it is an historical event. The Justices apparently have a rule that writing the majority opinion is spread out evenly, and no one can write a second opinion within a given period if someone else hasn't written one yet. I wonder if CJ Roberts will grab this one for himself, tho?) The dissenters will write an opinion, and even some of those in the majority may write separate opinions if they agree with the outcome, but disagree with the logic of the main opinion.

Seems like I read somewhere the decision is expected to be released in May, but I can't remember where I saw this. Read too many legal blogs lately. Probably SCOTUSBLOG has it someplace.

elb

[KD5NRH]

On signal, unlock, load, and fire up to 6 rounds in 3 seconds.

I'd be willing to give that a try, but I'll bet I couldn't beat 8 - 10 seconds.

I picked up a Super Comanche single shot today that came with one of those cheesy screw-type locks, so I decided to try something like this. After about 30 seconds without getting the crew all the way out, I gave up.

Maybe if I also had a screwgun with a bit for the lock screw I could do 10 seconds, but I'm not sure.