30.06 refusal to leave question

[KRM45]

Once you bond out of jail you go find a lawyer. First the lawyer gets the charges dismissed, then you file a wrongful arrest lawsuit.

Once the police officer asks you to leave, and tells you you will be arrested, I would personally leave. I would then file a complaint with the department. I don't have the time or energy to fight it the other way.

[boomerang]

Can you prove that's why he asked you to leave? Like prove that in a court of law?

What if they arrest you and charge you with violating 30.05 instead of 30.06?

[seamusTX]

This question is the reason I started this thread: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =15&t=4953

You could be out hundreds of dollars and days in jail. If anyone thinks it's easy to sue the police for wrongful arrest, please name the five most recent plaintiffs who succeeded at that.

We would like to think that judges are the voice of sanity, but they do make incorrect rulings and get overturned on appeal if the defendant can afford it.

- JIm

[RPBrown]

IANAL but I think once he asks you to leave, that in effect is being given verbal notice and refusal after that can constitute an arrest.

If someone were in my place of business or on my property, he can remain unless I ask him to leave. If he still remains, LEO has grounds to arrest for trespass.

With 30.06 posted, they don't have to ask they can arrest you on the spot

[Penn]

IANAL but I think once he asks you to leave, that in effect is being given verbal notice and refusal after that can constitute an arrest.

If someone were in my place of business or on my property, he can remain unless I ask him to leave. If he still remains, LEO has grounds to arrest for trespass.

With 30.06 posted, they don't have to ask they can arrest you on the spot

They are not allowed to give you notice if the only reason that they are doing so is because you are carrying and have a CHL.

[Jesse1911]

If you are able to read the sign and you still go in, the minute somone says something, just go with what they are ordering you to do, period. You'll loose becuase the sign was noticable enough and you are being notified verbally. You will not win this one in court...

[Kerbouchard]

IANAL but I think once he asks you to leave, that in effect is being given verbal notice and refusal after that can constitute an arrest.

If someone were in my place of business or on my property, he can remain unless I ask him to leave. If he still remains, LEO has grounds to arrest for trespass.

With 30.06 posted, they don't have to ask they can arrest you on the spot

That's why he specifically listed an 'unenforceable' 30.06. A 30.06 sign in a govt building is not a legal sign, and theoretically is just as invalid as a sign with a line through a gun.

A private business can post a legal 30.06 or ask you to leave. If you trespass or do not leave when asked you will be guilty of trespassing and/or Unlawful Carry. In govt building, the 30.06 sign is illegal, based on the statutes, and enforcing said sign, would also theoretically be illegal.

My .02 ... if they found out you were carrying in the first place then you already committed an offense that get your license revoked...I wouldn't push it.

Concealed means concealed. Stay safe out there.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Get real.

If a cop asks you to leave, leave.

If you want to make an issue of it, go hire a lawyer and try to get a court order forcing them to take the sign down and/or recind their unenforceable policy. FWIW, I believe this is the path TSRA took (or something like it) to get the City of Houston to remove some unenforceable signs back when the law was clarified.

They certainly didn't send people to these places to argue with any cops that might be around.

If you want to be a test case, hire a lawyer first, and have him accompany you along with a video camera crew to document the whole incident. Then go up to the cop and inform him that you are carrying because the 30.06 posting is not enforceable. (This is not the same thing as displaying the gun itself.)

At that point, the situation will develop however it develops. Make sure your "crew" is prepared to bail you out of jail. Make sure you are emotionally prepared to go to jail, because it is highly likely that that's where you will be headed.

If you take this route, I wish you the very best of luck. I hope you win the case.

On the downside, you might burn on some technicality that you or your lawyer overlooked. Then you will lose your CHL for some period of time, in addition to spending a whole big pile of money.

Me? I'd rather take the money and buy some guns.

[frankie_the_yankee]

IANAL but I think once he asks you to leave, that in effect is being given verbal notice and refusal after that can constitute an arrest.

If someone were in my place of business or on my property, he can remain unless I ask him to leave. If he still remains, LEO has grounds to arrest for trespass.

With 30.06 posted, they don't have to ask they can arrest you on the spot

They are not allowed to give you notice if the only reason that they are doing so is because you are carrying and have a CHL.

"Not allowed"? Who is going to stop them?

I'm not aware of any law under which someone could be charged or arrested for giving notice that might or might not be enforceable.

Are you?

[TommyGlock]

I think that, as CHL holders, we have to be the ones to take the high road. It comes down to answering the question of whether you want to be "right" or "happy." I've wasted a lot of years trying to help stupid people not be stupid. It doesn't work. The more I keep my ego out of things, the smaller of a target I become. The best way to get under an idiot's skin is to walk away happy.

[Keith B]

Here's a good scenario about the DMV not following laws. Long story:

My wife was raising a lab puppy as part of a Handicap Support Dog program. She went to the local DMV office to get her license renewed. The dog, who had the appropriate cape on and was being VERY well mannered laying under the edge of the chair in the waiting area. Under Texas law, a dog in training under a recognized program is to be treated just as any assistance animal per Texas Human Resource Code121.003 (i)

After about 45 minutes, a DPS trooper assigned to the office approached her and told her she had to leave as animals were not allowed in the building. My wife told him it was a certified support dog and under the statutes was allowed in the building. He told her his supervisor told him if she didn't leave he would have to arrest her for trespassing. She told the trooper that she would go outside and would like for the supervisor to come out and speak with her. The lady Sargent came out and would not get within 5-6 feet of my wife and the dog (I think she didn't like dogs), and told her that if she came back in with the dog she would be arrested. My wife ALWAYS carried a copy of the statute and told her she would show her the law, but the Sargent refused to even look at it. the Sargent said she could leave the dog in the car (it was 97 degrees! NOT!) or take the dog home and come back (not supposed to leave the dog alone while in training, it is by your side at all times.)

My wife called me,all upset, and told me what the issue was. I called the state DPS office and asked for the person in charge of the DMV offices for the DPS. I reached a lady Captain almost immediately. I explained the situation, quoted the statute, and told her that her Sargent had committed a misdemeanor by refusing the entrance of the assistance animal. She apologized and said I would receive a call within 5 minutes from the Lieutenant. About 3 minutes later, he called me and apologized, and said it would be taken care of. About 2 minutes later, the trooper came out and told my wife she was allowed back in. My wife asked to speak to the supervisor again, so she could explain the statue and let her know where she had errored. The trooper left and came back and told her the supervisor would not talk to her.
Another call to the Lieutenant from me and my understanding is the Sargent got some 'unpaid leave' over the issue.

Long story short, had my wife refused, she would have been arrested (wrongly) and we would have beaten the charges, and probably been able to sue the supervisor and the state. However, do you really want to go to that extreme? If you can afford the time and money, we need more test cases!!

[seamusTX]

That is a perfect illustration of how some LEOs can ignore the law, and also how to handle the situation correctly.

- Jim