Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

User avatar
seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by seamusTX »

This history is not forgotten in El Paso, but I just learned about it.

The first formal Thanksgiving celebration recorded by history in North America took place April 30, 1598, in the territory that is now Texas. It was celebrated by Spanish-Mexican colonists.
Juan de Oñate was a member of a distinguished family that had loyally worked for the Spanish crown. ...he wanted to carve an unquestioned place in history by leading an important expedition into unexplored land.

He was granted land in the northern Rio Grande Valley among the Pueblo Indians by the viceroy of New Spain... To reach his new holdings, Oñate chose to bypass the traditional route that followed the Rio Conchos in present-day Mexico to the Rio Grande and then northward along the Rio Grande into New Mexico. In the summer of 1597, Oñate sent Vicente de Zaldívar to blaze a wagon trail from Santa Barbara in southern Chihuahua, along which could be found adequate water supplies. Zaldívar underwent many hardships, including capture by Indians, in carrying out his instructions. No mention of the hardships was made, however, when he made his report to Oñate. (The trail blazed by Zaldívar has become the route of the modern highway between Chihuahua City and El Paso.)

By early March 1598, Oñate's expedition of 500 people, including soldiers, colonists, wives and children and 7,000 head of livestock, was ready to cross the treacherous Chihuahuan Desert. Almost from the beginning of the 50-day march, nature challenged the Spaniards. First, seven consecutive days of rain made travel miserable. Then the hardship was reversed, and the travelers suffered greatly from the dry weather. On one occasion, a chance rain shower saved the parched colonists.

Finally, for the last five days of the march before reaching the Rio Grande, the expedition ran out of both food and water, forcing the men, women and children to seek roots and other scarce desert vegetation to eat. Both animals and humans almost went mad with thirst before the party reached water. Two horses drank until their stomachs burst, and two others drowned in the river in their haste to consume as much water as possible.

The Rio Grande was the salvation of the expedition, however. After recuperating for 10 days, Oñate ordered a day of thanksgiving for the survival of the expedition. Included in the event was a feast, supplied with game by the Spaniards and with fish by the natives of the region. A mass was said by the Franciscan missionaries traveling with the expedition. And finally, Oñate read La Toma -- the taking -- declaring the land drained by the Great River to be the possession of King Philip II of Spain.

Some historians call this one of the truly important dates in the history of the continent, marking the beginning of Spanish colonization in the American Southwest.

A member of the expedition wrote of the original celebration, "We built a great bonfire and roasted the meat and fish, and then all sat down to a repast the like of which we had never enjoyed before. . .We were happy that our trials were over; as happy as were the passengers in the Ark when they saw the dove returning with the olive branch in his beak, bringing tidings that the deluge had subsided."
The better-known Thanksgiving in Plymouth took place 25 years later.

http://www.texasalmanac.com/history/hig ... nksgiving/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim
casingpoint
Senior Member
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by casingpoint »

Yeah, well, the native Indians didn't have so much to give thanks for, did they? Syphilis, small pox, rape was their lot from the white man.
User avatar
seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by seamusTX »

Wow, you're in a good mood. :neutral:

The whole conquest and colonization was an ugly business, but unless you are a Native American, you wouldn't be here otherwise. Every one of us stands at the summit of a pyramid of violence and bloody conflict that our ancestors survived. We can strive to behave better, but we can't ignore the past.

Syphilis went in the other direction, from the Americas to Europe.

- Jim
Last edited by seamusTX on Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
flintknapper
Banned
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by flintknapper »

casingpoint wrote:Yeah, well, the native Indians didn't have so much to give thanks for, did they? Syphilis, small pox, rape was their lot from the white man.

Native "Americans", since the term "Indian" is probably owing to Christopher Columbus mistakenly thinking he had landed in part of the "Indies". Those silly explorers. :roll:
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
User avatar
seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by seamusTX »

Both Indian and Native American are erroneous terms.

America comes from the name of an Italian mapmaker, who does not deserve a whole lot of credit for "discovering" America.

The earlier inhabitants of the Americas did not have single name for themselves or their country, so we have to make do with what we have.

- Jim
User avatar
flintknapper
Banned
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by flintknapper »

seamusTX wrote:Both Indian and Native American are erroneous terms.

America comes from the name of an Italian mapmaker, who does not deserve a whole lot of credit for "discovering" America.

The earlier inhabitants of the Americas did not have single name for themselves or their country, so we have to make do with what we have.

- Jim
Will you settle for Native "people" then? ;-)

That way we don't have to go into "Paleo, etc...."
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
User avatar
jimlongley
Senior Member
Posts: 6134
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:31 pm
Location: Allen, TX

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by jimlongley »

Which all brings up the question: How many generations does it take to become "native?"
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
cowboymd
Senior Member
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:25 am
Location: Grayson County

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by cowboymd »

Wouldn't any child born to legal immigrants be "Native Americans"?
TSRA Member
NRA Life Member
User avatar
seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by seamusTX »

Flintnapper, native alone is also inaccurate to describe the older inhabitants of the Americas. A native is a person born in a place, so you and I are native Americans.

Jim, one generation, technically.

However, in a small town where we lived, an observer of the local scene told us that a family was considered newcomers until their kids had gone through high school. By then they would no longer be referred to as "the family that moved into the Swenson home" or whatever.

It's an interesting question, when a newcomer's claim on land becomes final. Various groups have been fighting over patches of land for thousands of years, mostly in the Middle East; but it just happened in Georgia (the one in Europe).

- Jim
casingpoint
Senior Member
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by casingpoint »

but unless you are a Native American
You catch on fast, Kemo Sabe. Actually, I'm only 1/16 Cherokee. But I'm too embarrassed to claim the other 15/16's. :oops: :mrgreen:
User avatar
flintknapper
Banned
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by flintknapper »

seamusTX wrote:Flintnapper, native alone is also inaccurate to describe the older inhabitants of the Americas. A native is a person born in a place, so you and I are native Americans.
- Jim
So....are you saying that the untold thousands of people inhabiting (what we now call North America) when Columbus arrived were "bussed in"? I'm just guessing of course...but the smart money says they were born here. ;-)
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
User avatar
seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by seamusTX »

Of course the people who were living in the Americas in 1492 were born here, and their ancestors had been here for thousands of years.

It's just that I view anyone born here today as equally native, and maybe that's how it should be. We're all Americans, not something-hyphen-Americans.

We just don't have a good term for what used to be called Indians.

- Jim
User avatar
Skiprr
Moderator
Posts: 6458
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:50 pm
Location: Outskirts of Houston

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by Skiprr »

seamusTX wrote:Of course the people who were living in the Americas in 1492 were born here, and their ancestors had been here for thousands of years.

It's just that I view anyone born here today as equally native, and maybe that's how it should be. We're all Americans, not something-hyphen-Americans.

We just don't have a good term for what used to be called Indians.
Indigenous Peoples, maybe? But even that ain't scientifically correct.

From my side hobby in genealogy, I'll throw you--and casingpoint--another curve: technically speaking, we are all African; there are no truly indigenous Homo sapiens in any other part of the world. Whether you take your Bible literally or figuratively, the DNA evidence is quite conclusive: Eden was the Rift Valley in eastern Africa.

And it took us more than one try to expand beyond that area. The DNA, anthropological, and archeological evidence have come to paint a pretty clear picture during the last several years, though all things stay open to controversy.

The first Homo sapiens to leave Africa reached the Middle East around 110,000 years ago, but from all evidence they completely died out some 30,000 later. Outside of Africa, the next oldest Homo sapiens record is found in Australia, dating to around 50,000 years ago, predating human presence in Europe by 10,000 years.

Well over 90% of "Indigenous Americans," both North and South American, belong to Y-DNA haplogroup Q. Basically, think of this as simply a naming convention with which to identify--to group--unique, slow-mutating markers along the Y-chromosome. The particular marker that identifies haplogroup Q is called M242, and it arose around 20,000 years ago in the area of what is Siberia today. This supports the archeological conjecture of a Beringia crossing (the landmass that once joined what is today Russia and Alaska), and the new immigrants from the frozen tundra crossed over around 15,000 years ago. From there, there is speculation that their path south might have been through an ice-free Rocky Mountain corridor or via a Pacific coastal route, or both.

Not all of this clan made that undoubtedly dangerous crossing, of course, and haplogroup Q is still found in Siberia, China, and India. But almost all who might identify themselves as "Native American" are descended from these Siberian immigrants.

The next twist is that a newer marker, M3, arose in haplogroup Q after the immigrants arrived, probably 10,000 or so years ago. This unique marker identifies haplogroup Q3. While some Siberian, Chinese, and Indian peoples still carry marker M242, M3 is found only in America. Almost all "native" South Americans and most native North Americans carry the M3 marker.

For casingpoint's benefit here's how the Y-DNA marker progression (probably) looks for his Cherokee ancestors: "African Adam" -> M168 -> M89 -> M9 -> M45 -> M242 -> M3.

My own Welsh ancestors look like this: "African Adam" -> M168 -> M89 -> M9 -> M207 -> M173 -> M343 -> P25 -> P297 -> M269. Mine looks a lot longer because I've had it tested as deep as it can go (called subclades) at present. My haplogroup is R1b1b2.

So there ya go. :mrgreen: Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Join the NRA or upgrade your membership today. Support the Texas Firearms Coalition and subscribe to the Podcast.
I’ve contacted my State Rep, Gary Elkins, about co-sponsoring HB560. Have you contacted your Rep?
NRA Benefactor Life Member
User avatar
flintknapper
Banned
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by flintknapper »

seamusTX wrote:Of course the people who were living in the Americas in 1492 were born here, and their ancestors had been here for thousands of years.

It's just that I view anyone born here today as equally native, and maybe that's how it should be. We're all Americans, not something-hyphen-Americans.

We just don't have a good term for what used to be called Indians.

- Jim
True!

And you know I'm just "funnin with ya", right? :mrgreen:
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
User avatar
flintknapper
Banned
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:40 pm
Location: Deep East Texas

Re: Forgotten history: The first Thanksgiving in Texas

Post by flintknapper »

Skiprr wrote:
seamusTX wrote:Of course the people who were living in the Americas in 1492 were born here, and their ancestors had been here for thousands of years.

It's just that I view anyone born here today as equally native, and maybe that's how it should be. We're all Americans, not something-hyphen-Americans.

We just don't have a good term for what used to be called Indians.
Indigenous Peoples, maybe? But even that ain't scientifically correct.

From my side hobby in genealogy, I'll throw you--and casingpoint--another curve: technically speaking, we are all African; there are no truly indigenous Homo sapiens in any other part of the world. Whether you take your Bible literally or figuratively, the DNA evidence is quite conclusive: Eden was the Rift Valley in eastern Africa.

And it took us more than one try to expand beyond that area. The DNA, anthropological, and archeological evidence have come to paint a pretty clear picture during the last several years, though all things stay open to controversy.

The first Homo sapiens to leave Africa reached the Middle East around 110,000 years ago, but from all evidence they completely died out some 30,000 later. Outside of Africa, the next oldest Homo sapiens record is found in Australia, dating to around 50,000 years ago, predating human presence in Europe by 10,000 years.

Well over 90% of "Indigenous Americans," both North and South American, belong to Y-DNA haplogroup Q. Basically, think of this as simply a naming convention with which to identify--to group--unique, slow-mutating markers along the Y-chromosome. The particular marker that identifies haplogroup Q is called M242, and it arose around 20,000 years ago in the area of what is Siberia today. This supports the archeological conjecture of a Beringia crossing (the landmass that once joined what is today Russia and Alaska), and the new immigrants from the frozen tundra crossed over around 15,000 years ago. From there, there is speculation that their path south might have been through an ice-free Rocky Mountain corridor or via a Pacific coastal route, or both.

Not all of this clan made that undoubtedly dangerous crossing, of course, and haplogroup Q is still found in Siberia, China, and India. But almost all who might identify themselves as "Native American" are descended from these Siberian immigrants.

The next twist is that a newer marker, M3, arose in haplogroup Q after the immigrants arrived, probably 10,000 or so years ago. This unique marker identifies haplogroup Q3. While some Siberian, Chinese, and Indian peoples still carry marker M242, M3 is found only in America. Almost all "native" South Americans and most native North Americans carry the M3 marker.

For casingpoint's benefit here's how the Y-DNA marker progression (probably) looks for his Cherokee ancestors: "African Adam" -> M168 -> M89 -> M9 -> M45 -> M242 -> M3.

My own Welsh ancestors look like this: "African Adam" -> M168 -> M89 -> M9 -> M207 -> M173 -> M343 -> P25 -> P297 -> M269. Mine looks a lot longer because I've had it tested as deep as it can go (called subclades) at present. My haplogroup is R1b1b2.

So there ya go. :mrgreen: Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Hmmmmmm, mine all go back to a "Mc" or "Mac". ;-)
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic”