i am interested in getting a rifle that i could use for long range taget practice and hunting.i have done neither one so i am looking for a rifle to get me started
i know i can hit the targets at 100yrds but would like to try say 300-500 .is a 308 a good round or am i off base on this like i said this will be a new thing for me.also which scope for this .i also need a good 22 for me and my oldest to go plinking around is there one thats better than the other
308 & 22 suggestions
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
Just about any "deer" caliber out there will be good enough for having fun at 200 yards. But I would suggest the .30-06 over the .308 just because you have the added capacity in case you want to hand load and get more powder. Same bullet in each, just a longer case in the -06. Of course you could also consider the .270 or 7mm and be just fine as well. Heck, picking one based on ammo availability isn't a bad way to go either.
For .22 - the 10-22 is the standard answer. I have been VERY happy with my CZ-452 though. I like this better than the 10-22 that I used to have. It is a bolt action and that might be important. If you want a semi, check out the TC classic as well. You won't go wrong with any of these 3.
For .22 - the 10-22 is the standard answer. I have been VERY happy with my CZ-452 though. I like this better than the 10-22 that I used to have. It is a bolt action and that might be important. If you want a semi, check out the TC classic as well. You won't go wrong with any of these 3.
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
A .308 is an excellent choice. You can reliably kill almost anything in North America with it, and ammo is widely available. If you reload, there is plenty of reloading information for the .308. Ballistically speaking, you can kill a deer up to about 600 yards away (not saying you should, but you could). You can easily punch paper up to 600-700 yards, and if you're really good, you can reach out to 1,000 yards with the right ammunition.
While there are certainly more powerful, and equally available ammo options, the .308 is a joy to shoot in extended shooting sessions. I've put 200+ rounds down range in a single trip to the range, and my shoulder didn't hurt a bit. If you're interested in a target rifle, you can't go wrong with a heavy barreled .308.
As far as scopes are concerned, don't go cheap. A good rifle is nothing without a quality scope. Rule of thumb is 1x for every 100 yards, so a 10x can get you to 1,000 yards. While I don't personally buy that, I've seen several articles stating this. Plan on spending a minimum of $200. Anything less, and you'll likely have a hard time holding a zero and you'll never get good groups.
While there are certainly more powerful, and equally available ammo options, the .308 is a joy to shoot in extended shooting sessions. I've put 200+ rounds down range in a single trip to the range, and my shoulder didn't hurt a bit. If you're interested in a target rifle, you can't go wrong with a heavy barreled .308.
As far as scopes are concerned, don't go cheap. A good rifle is nothing without a quality scope. Rule of thumb is 1x for every 100 yards, so a 10x can get you to 1,000 yards. While I don't personally buy that, I've seen several articles stating this. Plan on spending a minimum of $200. Anything less, and you'll likely have a hard time holding a zero and you'll never get good groups.
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Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
Love him or hate him, Chuck Hawkes often puts up some thoughtful stuff. For example, here's an article about practical accuracy in rifles.
As someone who ended up with far too many calibers of ammunition needed to feed all his boomsticks, other suggestions I'd offer in considering your purchase are:
I posted earlier today about POF's new 6.8 SPC rifle. This is newer cartridge based on the .30 Remington that many are touting as the most logical replacement for the .223 in CQB environments. It sorta falls between the .223 and the Kalashnikov's 7.62x39 round, and it delivers a purported 44% energy than the .223 at 100 to 300 yards. First developed in 2004, this looks like a great choice to retrofit Stoner-type ARs with a more powerful cartridge because it's about the same size as the .223. But try finding it at your local Academy. Even the best prices out there are about a dollar per round, and only a few manufacturers produce the round. So this is a cartridge that, for me, currently fails the tests of availability, variety, future uses and future purchases (this is a defensive round and there are only a handful of rifles that use it). Again, just an example.
The .308 is essentially the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm. It's been around since the late '50s, is used in a variety of firearms including bolt-action, semi-auto, and military full-auto. It offers ballistic performance that's about the same as the .30-06. The M21 .308 sniper rifle is still in use by the U.S. military. Ammo is readily available from a variety of sources; good brass-cased FMJ can be had for about 70-cents per round, with different commercial loads available from HP to high-grade match ammo at about $2.00 per round. So the .308 has good availability and good variety, only fair price-for-purpose, good reloading options and also rates good for future purchases and future uses. A good selection of guns use the cartridge, so you might buy other guns that use the round. It certainly can be used for hunting, though may be overkill for smaller game. A downside for future uses is that the round has more recoil than less powerful ammo like the .223; so if you have young children you want to introduce to shooting, a .308 might not be a good choice--depending upon the rifle and the kid--until they are more physically mature.
The .243 has become one of the most popular hunting rounds in the world. When I got my first, very-own rifle it was a .243 and the round was only seven years old. I won't say when that was.
It's essentially .308 brass necked-down to hold the smaller bullet (a 6mm). At over 2,900 fps with a 100 grain bullet, it became popular in the U.S. for it's accuracy, flat trajectory, and relatively low recoil. The UK stipulates a minimum bullet of .240 for hunting deer (voila!) and other countries prohibit the use of military calibers as defined by NATO (bolt- and lever-action rifles originally in .308 are relatively easily changed to chamber the .243). You can walk into Wal-Mart and buy it for about 75-cents per round. So about the only tests the .243 doesn't pass is future purchases and future uses...although it could be a great hand-me-down rifle to a younger generation hunter. But you're not gonna buy a semi-auto to shoot it in. Too, price-for-purpose is only fair.
After umpteen words, I know I didn't answer your question. But I think having some sort of checklist to make in-kind comparisons can be helpful. In securing stuff in front of Hurricane Ike I realized I had firearms that needed an even dozen different calibers of ammunition. If you'd asked me six months earlier, I'd have said, "About eight different calibers," if I didn't stop to mentally count. Not optimal, IMHO. I think six or seven is pretty much all I'd need, and that would allow me to better maximize my ammo purchases. If I had it to do again, I would do it differently. YMMV. 
As someone who ended up with far too many calibers of ammunition needed to feed all his boomsticks, other suggestions I'd offer in considering your purchase are:
- Ammo availability
- Ammo variety
- Ammo price-for-purpose
- Ammo reloading options
- Possible future purchases
- Possible future uses
I posted earlier today about POF's new 6.8 SPC rifle. This is newer cartridge based on the .30 Remington that many are touting as the most logical replacement for the .223 in CQB environments. It sorta falls between the .223 and the Kalashnikov's 7.62x39 round, and it delivers a purported 44% energy than the .223 at 100 to 300 yards. First developed in 2004, this looks like a great choice to retrofit Stoner-type ARs with a more powerful cartridge because it's about the same size as the .223. But try finding it at your local Academy. Even the best prices out there are about a dollar per round, and only a few manufacturers produce the round. So this is a cartridge that, for me, currently fails the tests of availability, variety, future uses and future purchases (this is a defensive round and there are only a handful of rifles that use it). Again, just an example.
The .308 is essentially the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm. It's been around since the late '50s, is used in a variety of firearms including bolt-action, semi-auto, and military full-auto. It offers ballistic performance that's about the same as the .30-06. The M21 .308 sniper rifle is still in use by the U.S. military. Ammo is readily available from a variety of sources; good brass-cased FMJ can be had for about 70-cents per round, with different commercial loads available from HP to high-grade match ammo at about $2.00 per round. So the .308 has good availability and good variety, only fair price-for-purpose, good reloading options and also rates good for future purchases and future uses. A good selection of guns use the cartridge, so you might buy other guns that use the round. It certainly can be used for hunting, though may be overkill for smaller game. A downside for future uses is that the round has more recoil than less powerful ammo like the .223; so if you have young children you want to introduce to shooting, a .308 might not be a good choice--depending upon the rifle and the kid--until they are more physically mature.
The .243 has become one of the most popular hunting rounds in the world. When I got my first, very-own rifle it was a .243 and the round was only seven years old. I won't say when that was.
It's essentially .308 brass necked-down to hold the smaller bullet (a 6mm). At over 2,900 fps with a 100 grain bullet, it became popular in the U.S. for it's accuracy, flat trajectory, and relatively low recoil. The UK stipulates a minimum bullet of .240 for hunting deer (voila!) and other countries prohibit the use of military calibers as defined by NATO (bolt- and lever-action rifles originally in .308 are relatively easily changed to chamber the .243). You can walk into Wal-Mart and buy it for about 75-cents per round. So about the only tests the .243 doesn't pass is future purchases and future uses...although it could be a great hand-me-down rifle to a younger generation hunter. But you're not gonna buy a semi-auto to shoot it in. Too, price-for-purpose is only fair.After umpteen words, I know I didn't answer your question.
But I think having some sort of checklist to make in-kind comparisons can be helpful. In securing stuff in front of Hurricane Ike I realized I had firearms that needed an even dozen different calibers of ammunition. If you'd asked me six months earlier, I'd have said, "About eight different calibers," if I didn't stop to mentally count. Not optimal, IMHO. I think six or seven is pretty much all I'd need, and that would allow me to better maximize my ammo purchases. If I had it to do again, I would do it differently. YMMV. Join the NRA or upgrade your membership today. Support the Texas Firearms Coalition and subscribe to the Podcast.
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I’ve contacted my State Rep, Gary Elkins, about co-sponsoring HB560. Have you contacted your Rep?
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Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
Skippr makes some great points.
As for a specific suggestion, after handling and shooting a bunch of .22LR rifles before and after making my purchase last year, I found the Marlin 795 to be the perfect balance of price, features, and feel. I know everyone suggests the Ruger 10/22 but it felt like a poor ergonomic toy compared to the Marlins. For a .22LR rifle I think you have to first identify whether you want a bolt action or semi-automatic. If bolt action, I still would probably pick a Marlin but a Savage would also get my attention. For semi-automatic I my only choices were whether to get a 795 or a Model 60. I still am kind of on the fence but I love my 795SS, figure one of these days I'll pick up a Model 60 to go with it.
It seems to me that the biggest benefits of .308 would naturally be ammunition availability and price, but I don't think it's really that much cheaper for .308 compared to .243 or .270. But in a legitimate emergency or long-term shortage, .308 ammo is likely to be far more available down the road than any other .30-cal centerfire rifle rounds. That said, my next centerfire rifle purchase will be either 7.62x39 or .223/5.56.
As for a specific suggestion, after handling and shooting a bunch of .22LR rifles before and after making my purchase last year, I found the Marlin 795 to be the perfect balance of price, features, and feel. I know everyone suggests the Ruger 10/22 but it felt like a poor ergonomic toy compared to the Marlins. For a .22LR rifle I think you have to first identify whether you want a bolt action or semi-automatic. If bolt action, I still would probably pick a Marlin but a Savage would also get my attention. For semi-automatic I my only choices were whether to get a 795 or a Model 60. I still am kind of on the fence but I love my 795SS, figure one of these days I'll pick up a Model 60 to go with it.
It seems to me that the biggest benefits of .308 would naturally be ammunition availability and price, but I don't think it's really that much cheaper for .308 compared to .243 or .270. But in a legitimate emergency or long-term shortage, .308 ammo is likely to be far more available down the road than any other .30-cal centerfire rifle rounds. That said, my next centerfire rifle purchase will be either 7.62x39 or .223/5.56.
non-conformist CHL holder
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
thanks for all the info and replys as far as the 308 yes i would prefere a bolt action that holds 5 rounds or as close to that as possible maybe one that has a detachable magazine.i also would like a .22 with a magazine possibly a 10 rounder or more
i was thinking of a cheap one like a plinkster by mosseberg but have not heard good things so far,the same can be said about the 10/22 everyone says there great if you spend a butload of money on them.the .22 will be used mainly for squirels and rabbits and punching paper.i am looking at all the options you guys mentioned but if you can think of anything else it is appreciated
i was thinking of a cheap one like a plinkster by mosseberg but have not heard good things so far,the same can be said about the 10/22 everyone says there great if you spend a butload of money on them.the .22 will be used mainly for squirels and rabbits and punching paper.i am looking at all the options you guys mentioned but if you can think of anything else it is appreciated
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
The Mossberg 702 "Plinkster" is basically a copy of a Marlin 795, lacking a few features. I got my 795SS (poly stock, stainless barrel, aluminum action) for $200 and a blued/poly Plinkster was about 1/2 that price. You can get a blued Marlin 795 for about $150 if you can find one. My 795 has a 10-round box magazine and I have never had any kind of feed problem. Occasionally it gets a FTE, and that is very ammo-dependent. It's very accurate and fun to shoot. I put a $20 BSA 4x32 scope on it and we have a blast with it.
I haven't heard anything bad or good about the Plinkster. I seriously considered one instead of my 795SS, and rather than buy a spare magazine for my 795 I might just buy a Plinkster.
I haven't heard anything bad or good about the Plinkster. I seriously considered one instead of my 795SS, and rather than buy a spare magazine for my 795 I might just buy a Plinkster.
non-conformist CHL holder
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
Perhaps it's because mine was purchased new in about 1970 or 1971, but I have had no problems with my stock 10/22, except it didn't like one particular brick of ammo (Remington, I believe, do they make "Super-X"?). More than a few of the cartridges appeared to have the bullets attached to the casing crooked. Haven't had any problem with Federal.05kas05 wrote:the same can be said about the 10/22 everyone says there great if you spend a butload of money on them.the .22 will be used mainly for squirels and rabbits and punching paper.
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
I think the knock on the 10-22 is that out of the box, it is not as accurate (reportedly...) as some other rifles are out of the box, such as a Marlin or a Savage to name a couple that are price-competitive. OTOH, you can spend as much as you like modifying the 10-22 and make it more accurate or really whatever you want it to be, while a Marlin or Savage will pretty much be all it can be right out of the box.
That said, mostly I liked the feel, size, feel of the stock and handling, etc. of the Marlins much more than the Ruger. The Ruger felt like a toy. Actually, the Ruger felt almost exactly like my Crosman 1077, which makes sense given that the Crosman is a copy of a 10-22.
That said, mostly I liked the feel, size, feel of the stock and handling, etc. of the Marlins much more than the Ruger. The Ruger felt like a toy. Actually, the Ruger felt almost exactly like my Crosman 1077, which makes sense given that the Crosman is a copy of a 10-22.
non-conformist CHL holder
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
larryh: i was not knocking your choice or your gun this is just some of the stuff i have read on the internet doing searches.i cant say it is not a good gun as i have never had one. i do believe that most of the problems most people have with guns is user error if you know what i mean.i have narrowed my choices down to a couple of guns and yes the 10-22 is on that list i will just have to handle each one and see what feels right to me.once again thanks for the help and if you have any more suggestions please let me know it wont fall on deaf ears.
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
The .308 Win is an exceptionally accurate round. For the .308Win, my choice is the Remington 700. It's a well built rifle, a good value. The only way you are going to find a more accurate .308 Win is to spend four to five times the money. If you expect consistent accuracy at 300-500 yards it is going to be more about your marksmanship skills than any particular caliber or brand of rifle.05kas05 wrote:thanks for all the info and replys as far as the 308 yes i would prefere a bolt action that holds 5 rounds or as close to that as possible maybe one that has a detachable magazine.i also would like a .22 with a magazine possibly a 10 rounder or more
i was thinking of a cheap one like a plinkster by mosseberg but have not heard good things so far,the same can be said about the 10/22 everyone says there great if you spend a butload of money on them.the .22 will be used mainly for squirels and rabbits and punching paper.i am looking at all the options you guys mentioned but if you can think of anything else it is appreciated
For your .22LR it depends on your goal. If you want something to plink and shoot tin cans and hit your target every other shot, you can buy any gun you want. If you want accuracy for one shot kills at 50 yards I would try to find a used Mossberg, Savage or Marlin bolt action.
IMO, these older bolt action rifles have better accuracy than any of the semi-automatics. None of the rifles with 10+ capacity are going to come close to the accuracy of a bolt action. If you want a gun that is capable of a consistent one shot kill, the bolt action is the way to go. If you like to "spray and pray" choose whatever you like.
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Aggie_engr
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Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
I don't have much experience with rifle rounds and the only one I have shot is my dad's 30-06 which worked excellent on hogs and deer.
As far as .22's go, I personally own a Marlin model 60 and and my brother has the 10-22. I did notice a little difference in accuracy shooting them both. As far as fit, finish, feel and accuracy of each gun goes I have to give it to the Marlin. The only cool thing about the 10-22 is being able to use 25 and 50 round magazines. (which my brother has)
As far as .22's go, I personally own a Marlin model 60 and and my brother has the 10-22. I did notice a little difference in accuracy shooting them both. As far as fit, finish, feel and accuracy of each gun goes I have to give it to the Marlin. The only cool thing about the 10-22 is being able to use 25 and 50 round magazines. (which my brother has)
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
I have to admit I'd really like to have my dad's old bolt-action .22 -- Western Field, I believe. One of my brothers has it.
We'll have to find the time to go shooting the next time we make it up to Minnesota.
We'll have to find the time to go shooting the next time we make it up to Minnesota.
Re: 308 & 22 suggestions
Super-X ammo is made by Winchester. I have a some of it at home.LarryH wrote:Perhaps it's because mine was purchased new in about 1970 or 1971, but I have had no problems with my stock 10/22, except it didn't like one particular brick of ammo (Remington, I believe, do they make "Super-X"?). More than a few of the cartridges appeared to have the bullets attached to the casing crooked. Haven't had any problem with Federal.05kas05 wrote:the same can be said about the 10/22 everyone says there great if you spend a butload of money on them.the .22 will be used mainly for squirels and rabbits and punching paper.
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