SOME PEOPLE AMAZE ME

[Boom]

I understand from this forum that there are some people who get impatient over the processing times. I also understand that if my (or yours) license was the most important thing for the DPS to do, it would get done quicker. What I don’t understand is why so many "fist pounders" would call their state representatives & the DPS, over and over and over to get a status of their license to carry a concealed gun? Truly amazing! Where is this vigilance over issues that really matter? In the grand scheme of things, I don’t want my state rep's office or the Department of Public Safety to have to spend any time dealing with zealots who have nothing better to do than to count the days when they can walk down the street with a gun on their hip as if they are being shot at on a daily basis (while outdoors not in their vehicle or home or property) and the State is taking too much time processing their application. AYKM?

I am a proud member of the NRA and strongly support the 2nd amendment. I would rather the DPS spend a few extra days doing background checks and making people wait than to rush a CHL just to make those impatient happy. If you have a "fever" to get a CHL where it prompts you to spend hours on end writing and emailing, maybe I don’t want you carrying a gun. Maybe that "fever" will also prompt you to think you are Clint Eastwood. Get over it. Write your congressman when they take your taxes from your school district to give themselves pay raises. Call the DPS when they spend more time trying to figure out how to increase revenue by issuing citations than to provide safety to citizens.

it is selfish to waste time with this nonsense. If they decline you erroneously, or lose your app, go for it. If they need to spend more time processing your app, get over it. Maybe they are saving you from yourself.

[AEA]

Ummmmmm......

Interesting first post.

Welcome to the Forum.

[Boom]

Ummmmmm......

Interesting first post.

Welcome to the Forum.

Yes, and I hope those that read it focus on "over and over and over"... not someone who calls after 60 days to get a status or asking a question on something confusing. My point is targeted to those others that take this a bit further.

[frazzled]

Here's the problem:
1. yes, some people are impatient. But many may have a reason for obtaining a CHL quickly. I was advised to by counsel for instance.

2. More importantly the whole time delay thing due to backgrounds is a joke designed to maintain power/employment in DPS. I have nothing against the people that work there as this is a higher up policy thing. However the law itself does not require that the DPS perform such a background check-it was a bureaucracy doing that to get power. You can do a similar check almost instantly via other means. These checks are routinely done for security positions.

3. It took me six months to get mine. Under the statute that counts as a denial. My comrade waited 10 months, TEN MONTHS to get his. In the interim he had to do two background checks for security clearance purposes, both done in a week.

EDIT: Just re-read the original post. Why the hostility? Why the statements about DPS int he first place? There is no requirement in the original legislation I am aware [abbreviated profanity deleted] that states 1. DPS needs to do the background checks; 2. By LAW the app has to be processed within a certain time. As noted by other posters, I can't unililaterly break the law when its inconvenient.
If the DPS doesn't have the time or resources the background check, which is the difficulty, needs to be outsourced to cheaper 3rd parties, where it should have been sent in the first place. As you note, they have better things to do than background checks.

[74novaman]

Do you work at DPS? Just seem real concerned about what other people are doing!

I understand they're backlogged, but BY LAW we're theoretically supposed to have it done in 60 days. I'd love to see any of us be 3-4 months behind on paying taxes and get away with "Well I'm really busy right now".

I'm over my 60 days at this point. I'm giving it to 70, then calling DPS. If they're not helpful, I'll talk to my congressman.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.

[Broncrider]

Boom,
I understand you think that DPS has better things to do than live up to the rules that they set for themselves, however the folks that are processing applications are not officers off of the street nor invetigators. So it seems highly unlikely that these folks could be spending their time doing anything else.

as far as your statement goes "maybe I dont want you carrying a gun" seems ridiculous. since when does it matter what you think about me exercising my right. I could say the same thing about free speech, (i.e. maybe I dont want you talking about anything). When put into that context maybe you understand how ridiculous your statement is.

[jackj87]

I understand from this forum that there are some people who get impatient over the processing times. I also understand that if my (or yours) license was the most important thing for the DPS to do, it would get done quicker. What I don’t understand is why so many "fist pounders" would call their state representatives & the DPS, over and over and over to get a status of their license to carry a concealed gun? Truly amazing! Where is this vigilance over issues that really matter? In the grand scheme of things, I don’t want my state rep's office or the Department of Public Safety to have to spend any time dealing with zealots who have nothing better to do than to count the days when they can walk down the street with a gun on their hip as if they are being shot at on a daily basis (while outdoors not in their vehicle or home or property) and the State is taking too much time processing their application. AYFKM?

I am a proud member of the NRA and strongly support the 2nd amendment. I would rather the DPS spend a few extra days doing background checks and making people wait than to rush a CHL just to make those impatient happy. If you have a "fever" to get a CHL where it prompts you to spend hours on end writing and emailing, maybe I don’t want you carrying a gun. Maybe that "fever" will also prompt you to think you are Clint Eastwood. Get over it. Write your congressman when they take your taxes from your school district to give themselves pay raises. Call the DPS when they spend more time trying to figure out how to increase revenue by issuing citations than to provide safety to citizens.

it is selfish to waste time with this nonsense. If they decline you erroneously, or lose your app, go for it. If they need to spend more time processing your app, get over it. Maybe they are saving you from yourself.

Honestly, why does it matter if they post about their concerns about taking such a long time about DPS, isn't that what a forum or a community there for? Nobody is making you read the post, so if you see a post or thread about somebody complaining just skip over it. Also, these "fist pounders" also pay their taxes so why can't they call the people that are representing them, and somehow I think by doing so that these officials will become more aware of the problem. As for the background checks, I would not mind it if they were actually checking the background of the applicants, but in reality, the application is just sitting there with no background check of any type being done.

Considering some people are impatient, you know they can not help it. Some people would contribute to a ADD complex or some other reason. Take me for example, I am 21 years old and still in college(about to graduate to the "real world") and I have had background checks for other reasons. Just recently, a buddy in my fraternity, who has his also has a CHL, ran a background check on me for an apartment I am subleasing this summer. He ran it, and gave me a copy where there was nothing present on it.

Also, the reason I wanted a CHL was not so much to be able to carry everywhere but to alleviate any concerns of having a concealed pistol when driving and not having to worry about the wrong cop stopping you and citing for unlawful possession or carry i.e. Houston DA's before the Castle Doctrine was revised in September 2007.

[DrinkRaiderade]

I think 74nova may be right, this guy probably does work for DPS, and is annoyed by all of the phone calls, emails, and contacts from Legislators.

1) You have no idea why each person wants/needs a CHL, and frankly it doesn't matter. This state saw a NEED to allow its citizens to carry concealed weapons and set up a system for this to be allowed. You say not to count the days and weeks until a CHL is granted, but what do you say to someone who is robbed/assaulted/raped etc. while their CHL is still processing? Those people, unless they are at home, or in their vehicle do not have an ability to protect themselves. Dark parking lots, public transportation, vehicle malfunctions, etc all lead to this person being unprotected, and their situation has made them want to be allowed to carry a concealed weapon for their personal protection. Who are you to judge?

2) It costs A LOT of money to get a CHL. After all is said and done between classes/ammo./processing fee it comes to about $250. That is $250 dollars that one is not able to spend on OTHER things while the application is processing. Name something else that you spend $250 on that takes over 2 months to get? The only thing I can think of is prearranged events like sports tickets, concerts, and airline tickets, and all of these have a SET DATE for when the product is going to be delivered. The CHL does not, nor do I think it should, but updates on delays (past 60 days) should be disseminated to each applicant.

3) Senator John Carona's automated return email states, "As your State Senator serving in Austin, my priority is to provide you with the best possible representation and constituent assistance. My staff and I are prepared to help with issues concerning state government" So THIS IS one of the purposes of elected representatives, they know it too. I have contacted Senator Carona's office about many other issues as well, not related to CHL or RKBA. Legislators should know how their constituents feel about different topics that matter to each of them. We aren't supposed to elect them and just "hope" that they vote on things the way that we want them to. We have to let our representatives know how we feel. His staff even commented about the concern over CHL processing times and wanted to make sure that they were able to do something at least for me, as one of his constituents.

4) The law states 60 days (or technically up to 30+60days, not the spirit of the law though) I sent in my packet, I meet all of the requirements for a CHL, my fee was paid online (immediately), so if DPS is following the law my application should be complete. There may be reasons why this time frame cannot be met, IKE, incredible number of applications, local background checks taking forever, systems crashing, etc. But these reasons need to be disseminated to the applicants about the delay in their application. Some on here have waited 7,8,9,10 months to get their plastic; with no word from DPS. That is unacceptable. Where do we draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable? 90 days? 120 days? 150 days? How bout where the law says to draw the line? 60 days...

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. But, I am also entitled to call DPS to ask about the status of my application and to call my State Legislators when I don't feel my questions have been adequately answered. If you don't work for DPS, why do you care that I am asking for assistance from my State Representative? If you do work for DPS, I politely request that you please get back to work on processing the applications and relaying information to the applicants.

[Boom]

Do you work at DPS? Just seem real concerned about what other people are doing!

I understand they're backlogged, but BY LAW we're theoretically supposed to have it done in 60 days. I'd love to see any of us be 3-4 months behind on paying taxes and get away with "Well I'm really busy right now".

I'm over my 60 days at this point. I'm giving it to 70, then calling DPS. If they're not helpful, I'll talk to my congressman.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.

No, don’t work there. I am waiting like many others on this forum and found this site by accident. So I read through many posts to see what is being written, actually looking for a conceal holster as I wait. My comments were not intended to be directed at those who have legitimate beefs. I also don’t think government workers are motivated to make the customers happy since the government has no competition in this...

[Boom]

I think 74nova may be right, this guy probably does work for DPS, and is annoyed by all of the phone calls, emails, and contacts from Legislators.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. But, I am also entitled to call DPS to ask about the status of my application and to call my State Legislators when I don't feel my questions have been adequately answered. If you don't work for DPS, why do you care that I am asking for assistance from my State Representative? If you do work for DPS, I politely request that you please get back to work on processing the applications and relaying information to the applicants.

Just remember, its MY congressman too. So when you ask me why I care that you ask for assistance from MY congressman, is because they represent all of us, not just YOU. which is my point.

It is my right to disagree and get irritated that you are wasting MY congressman's time.

[jimlongley]

I also don’t think government workers are motivated to make the customers happy since the government has no competition in this...

Exactly, which is why we have a law that says the process is supposed to take 60 days, or you are supposed to get written notification of the reason for the delay, and the reason why people are unhappy with waiting more than 60 days and not getting that written notification. Unfortunately the law has no teeth, such as refunds of application fees.

I, personally, would like to see HB140 passed by a two thirds plus majority in each house.

I would also have like to have seen the wording in the law, which says that a delay without written notification constitutes a refusal to grant, removed.

[DrinkRaiderade]

Have a great day & welcome to the forum! Hopefully neither of our waits will take too long!

[Boom]

Boom,
I understand you think that DPS has better things to do than live up to the rules that they set for themselves, however the folks that are processing applications are not officers off of the street nor invetigators. So it seems highly unlikely that these folks could be spending their time doing anything else.

as far as your statement goes "maybe I dont want you carrying a gun" seems ridiculous. since when does it matter what you think about me exercising my right. I could say the same thing about free speech, (i.e. maybe I dont want you talking about anything). When put into that context maybe you understand how ridiculous your statement is.

As far as your statement goes " ...maybe you understand how ridiculous your statement is" seems ridiculous. Since when does it matter what you think about exercising my right of free speech? haha, caught you in a contradiction...

I agree, it doesnt matter what i think, as much as it doesnt matter what you think. My statement wasnt directed to anyone personally, it was a figure of speech intended make fun of those that cannot control their impulses and MAY not be best having a gun on their hip. Again, not my business though, but funny and relevent in the paragraph.

[Charles L. Cotton]

You are off to a great start.

I may be mistaken, but if "AYFKM" means what I think it does, then you have blatantly violated Forum Rule 1. If I am wrong, then I apologize.

1. No profanity, pseudo-profanity, or abbreviated profanity. If you are in doubt about a word, don't use it. Any profanity substitute that gets the profane message across is prohibited!

You haven't violated the letter of Rule 2 because you have not singled out a specific individual for your insulting comments, but you certainly have ignored the spirit of it.

2. No personal attacks on other members - NONE! We can be respectful even in disagreement. If you're talking about the person rather than the issue, then the post will be deleted.

You are factually incorrect in your complaint about bothering the DPS. The Concealed Handgun Unit has absolutely nothing to do, other than process CHL applications. That is its sole reason for existing.

You also ignore the statutory requirement that sets deadlines for processing, issuing, or denying applications. I find it most interesting that you don't seem to care about DPS violating the statute. Further, this is not a recent problem, in spite of DPS claims that delays are caused solely by the tremendous increase in CHL applications for the last several months. This problem has existed since 1996 and has gotten progressively worse. The typical cycle has been for DPS to be grossly late in processing applications, then about three months before a legislative session begins, they bring in people from other DPS departments to get "caught up" on applications. This way the Col. can claim "we're within statute," meaning they are processing new and renewal applications within the statutory time limits, to avoid any meaningful statutory improvements. When the session ends in June, the borrowed employees go back to their regular departments and the delays return until the cycle is completed.

You also are not aware of how quickly and how early in the process complete criminal history background checks are done. The criminal history background checks performed in DPS' Austin office and consists of a computer search of the NCIC, TCIC and NICS databases. (Yes, DPS is doing the NICS check itself; the FBI fingerprint card has nothing to do with a NICS check, regardless what DPS claims to the contrary.) A full, complete criminal history check is completed in less than five minutes. As others have noted, the "local" checks are both unnecessary and left to the discretion of the DPS. So the DPS isn't spending "a few extra days doing background checks," they are exercising their discretion to conduct additional, unnecessary "local" checks knowing full well it will cause them to violate Texas law by doing so.

I suspect that you either recently got interested in getting a CHL, or recently moved to Texas, or for some other reason are not aware of the twelve year history of worsening delays and groundless excuses given by DPS for those delays. Perhaps you are also not aware of the meeting between former-Chairman Driver, DPS officials and a representative of Governor Perry's office, former Senator Armbrister, concerning these delays, or the fact that the Deputy Chief in charge of the CHL department was not even aware that at least 30% of applications were over 100 days late! Both numbers are far worse now. But before claiming that legitimate concerns are "nonsense" or labeling people as "fist pounders," perhaps you should educate yourself on the issue.

You said you found this forum by accident. Apparently you didn't even bother to read the forum rules before posting, much less read enough to learn the customs and practices of TexasCHLforum. You are welcome to discuss any issue that does not violate our rules, so long as you do so in a respectful manner. At this point, I don't like your attitude one little bit.

Chas.

[shh83]

i just emailed, called and checked my status online in your honor!

Mr. Cotton, is there a "delete" button next to this guys profile?

Scott