Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

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frazzled

Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by frazzled »

This sounds like bad day at black rock

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529 ... latestnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
WEBSTER, Texas — Police used a Taser on a pastor and pepper spray to disperse his congregants Wednesday after the pastor allegedly interfered with a traffic stop in the church parking lot.

Congregants say they were in the Iglesia Profetica Peniel church for an early morning prayer when pastor Jose Elias Moran went to assist the stopped driver, a church member, by asking the police what had happened.

An incident report on the Webster police department's Web site said Officer Raymond Berryman tried to calm Moran and arrest him. But police say he pushed the officer, went inside the church and returned with 40 other congregants.

The congregants say Moran fled into the church when the officer grew angry and began to yell, and Moran's family disputes that the pastor touched the officer.

Moran's son Miguel said 30 witnesses saw the officer turn aggressive and repeatedly kick the church door. Several members were hit with pepper spray and children were present, Miguel Moran said.

"They treated him as if he were a drug dealer or murderer, but he is a pastor that tries to help the community," Moran said. "The police always want to be right but they are not."

Moran's wife, Maria, said she tried to help her husband after he was hit with the Taser but police threatened to arrest her.

"My husband has a heart condition and with electrocution who knows what could've happened," Maria Moran said, referring to the Taser's electrical shock.

"A pastor has to tend to his flock," she said. "That is all he was doing."

Speaking from a hospital bed Wednesday night, Moran told The Associated Press he planned to hire an attorney to file charges against the officer. He was being held at the hospital overnight for additional tests.

Police did not immediately return calls seeking comment and more details of the incident. Police Sgt. James Lovel did not specify Moran's status, except to say he was in custody and negotiations for bail were taking place Wednesday night.

Webster is a suburb southeast of Houston.
Now that I think about I could see this as a potentially very bad situation for the LEO's. If Pepper spray gets near my wife or kids, even if unintentional, ALL bets are off. Even if in the right, the words "insane crowd" might be used if all the dad types go berserk. God help 'em if they annoyed She Who Must Be Obeyed. :eek6
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Oldgringo
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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by Oldgringo »

"Bull" Connors used fire hoses, batons and German Shepards to calm/subdue the masses - in his day.
frazzled

Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by frazzled »

Run!!! :willynilly: :willynilly:

:smilelol5:

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Russell wrote:
frazzled wrote:Now that I think about I could see this as a potentially very bad situation for the LEO's. If Pepper spray gets near my wife or kids, even if unintentional, ALL bets are off. Even if in the right, the words "insane crowd" might be used if all the dad types go berserk. God help 'em if they annoyed She Who Must Be Obeyed. :eek6

I don't. I see this as a bad situation for the pastor who decided he was going to get in the middle of police duties he had no business getting in the middle of.

Sounds to me like he got what he had coming to him.

As far as pepper spraying the crowd, put yourself in the shoes of the cop. All of a sudden you have 40 angry people coming out of a building to come make your day a bad one. What would YOU do?
:iagree: I saw the news report last night on KHOU Ch. 11. If the report was accurate, the preacher interfered with the lawful acts of a police officer and he has a very big problem. If he aided in getting the mob involved when the driver fled into the church, he may face other charges as well. Even the church members admitted the preacher injected himself into the traffic stop, that the driver fled into the church and that the officer was trying to gain entry by kicking the door.

The officer used pepper spray against the driver and if parents let their "children" stand next to a person fleeing from officers, then it's the parents' fault that their "children" got sprayed.

As for kicking on the church door, that's what happens when someone flees from officers and the preacher/congregation a/k/a mob locks the door to keep the police out.

Chas.
frazzled

Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by frazzled »

I still think running is valid option. 40 people coming out of a building has that effect on me. Yikes! :eek6

(images of the 50 clowns coming out of VW circus act)

Seriously I just see this as a bad situation fraught (sp) with risk. In light of the seemingly once a month shootings at churches:
1. A mass commotion is going to be a freak out.
2. What if the suspect had been pursued into the church? What if the pepper spray was used in the church. Its one thing to have a crowd outside. I agree there's assumption of the risk there to an extent.
But if you’re attending church minding your business, a commotion occurs while you’re in church, and pepper spray gets used (my family is using on an aisle end as we frequently have to get up to help with some church thing or other) I could see that getting very bad very quickly. What if that spray hits kids or old people? I just have this image going through my head of our little church.
Old people have seizures. Parents go berserk.

Its just a brilliantly inflammatory situation, all over a lack of insurance. I am not saying the LEO’s created the situation, or what they did was in any way wrong (pastor's the bad actor here). I’m just seeing scenarios where it could get uglier than it did (which sounds ugly actually if the LEO’s is having to spray about him).
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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by bryang »

Sounds like a terrible situation to me, and at a church...what happen to love thy brother? :headscratch

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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by Drewthetexan »

Forget that he is a pastor or that the traffic stop occured at a church parking lot - now you have a bystander involving himself in a traffic stop, distracting the officer, and potentially creating a dangerous situation where the driver could take advantage of the diversion and assualt the officer before or while fleeing. (Purely hypothetical, but one never knows).

Pastor brought this on himself.
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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by longtooth »

35 yrs now as a pastor.
He had no business interrupting the stop even if it was in the Chruch parking lot.
Historically the Catholic church was considered a Santuary safe from arrest.
No Biblical foundation for that.
First thing I tell anyone that wants to talk to me & get assurance that I will not tell anyone is that confidentaility does not superseed the law.
Neither does the sanctuary.
My .02cents & some think it worth less than half that.
Specially the folks in the above church.
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frazzled

Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by frazzled »

To me its less about the pastor (idiot maximus) then about the having to spray the crowd situation and trying to chase the ticketee/Pastor into the church. I'm not thinking chasing someone stopped for a non-crime (sorry lack of insurance is non-crime) into the church was an Einstein moment.
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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by amber »

Any news on the immigration status of mob interfering with the police officer?
frazzled

Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by frazzled »

Respectively, what does the immigration status of a church congregation have to do with...anything?
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Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

frazzled wrote:Respectively, what does the immigration status of a church congregation have to do with...anything?
There have been some immigration raids in the Houston area recently that generated a lot of opposition by some Hispanic political and church leaders. The area where this happened also has a large illegal immigrant population, so the driver fleeing, and the Pastor and congregation may have gotten involved, for just that reason. Webster PD didn't do the immigration raids, but all officers are seeing some of the backlash.

Chas.
frazzled

Re: Police Taser Pastor and pepper spray congregation

Post by frazzled »

Respectfully, I don't think that has a thing to do with it. I think if an LEO went after a pastor at any church you're going to get an immediate reaction. Mayhaps not as aggressive, or mayhaps even more so. Where it at my church certain members probably could have seen to it the officer's career was over, but then again our collarmen aren't idiots like that either and this would not have occurred (local LEO's are dealt with favorably and in friendly fashion).
No, but resisting an officer of the law is a crime..
yes the infamous being arrested for resisting arrest charge. I already said he was an idiot. But I think trying to chase him into a church was not a smart move either.

EDIT: I am not saying I would have made a smarter move. I'm just thinking of some of the "could have happened"s.
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