Forced Entry at Neighbor's House

[pdubyoo]

Early this afternoon, my neighbor from across the street and over one house, knocked on my door. My wife answered and he asked for me. She came and got me out of my office and said that the neighbor was at the door, and looked very angry. I went to the door and greeted him, and he quickly asked me if I've seen anything/anyone suspicious in the last couple of hours. I said no, and then asked why.

He said, "they got me". I must have had a fairly puzzled look on my face, so he explained that someone broke into his house within the last couple of hours. He and his wife left the house around 10:30am to run some errands, and came back around 12:30, to find the front door ajar. BTW, he's a Sgt. with the Houston PD. He was off-duty at the time, of course.

He told his wife to call 911 and stay in the car. He armed-up and cleared his house, then immediately came over to my house, since he knew I work from home, and my office is on the front of my house with windows that face the street. He was hoping that I saw something, which I did not. From my office, I can see the corner of his house, but would have to stand at the windows to see his front door or driveway.

The BG kicked-in the front door. He had two dead-bolt locks with extra long screws through the striker plates, going into the studs, and a special striker plate with two 3/8”x 4” steel dowels that go into the studs. All of that was kicked-in, and wood splinters and hardware were scattered all over the front entry area. That took a huge amount of force, and likely made a lot of noise. But, I didn’t hear it.

There was a lawn crew a couple of doors down in the other direction, caddy-corner to my house. They must have had 4 or 5 guys, all with mowers, string-trimmers and blowers going at the same time. It was noisy, which probably explains why I didn’t hear the door break-in. The noisy lawn crew has raised some suspicions in my mind. It may just be coincidence, and it could be a team effort.

Anyway, they stole two large LCD televisions, a Mac laptop, jewelry and some silver decorations. They tried to get into a closet where his gun-safe full of weapons was, but the steel door and jamb wouldn’t break. The steel door has a big dent in it, with a real nice shoeprint.

The neighbor figures that the BG was probably startled by something, and bolted instead of finishing the job. Since the BG knows there’s a door that he couldn’t open, he probably equates that to something valuable being locked-up. The police think there’s a good possibility that the BG will come back. If he does, it might just be the last thing he does before meeting his maker.

It makes me ill that I didn’t see or hear anything, especially since it was in broad daylight. I don’t want to be another Joe Horn, but I do have written permission from my neighbor to use deadly force to defend his house, if I felt so inclined. I certainly don’t plan on playing cop though.

Just another reason to be armed at home. The BG was likely watching them and hit when he knew nobody was home. But, he couldn’t be 100% sure.

[Wisewr]

I was kinda thinking the same thing about the lawn crew being a possible cover-up.

Just out of curiosity, you said you have written permission from your neighbor to use dealdy force to defend his house; is this some type of legal binding document or just make-your-own document that you and him signed? And would it hold up in a court of law?

Condolences to your neighbor.

[USA1]

i'm sorry for your neighbor.
this kind of thing makes me sick . especially when its close to home .
thank goodness your neighbor or his family wasn't hurt and no firearms were taken .

[pdubyoo]

I was kinda thinking the same thing about the lawn crew being a possible cover-up.

Just out of curiosity, you said you have written permission from your neighbor to use dealdy force to defend his house; is this some type of legal binding document or just make-your-own document that you and him signed? And would it hold up in a court of law?

Condolences to your neighbor.

There wasn't any legal form or even signatures. We discussed it one day after I chased a peeping-tom through the neighborhood. This was around the time of the Joe Horn incident. He told me that I have his permission to use deadly force to defend his home, and I reciprocated, and then we kinda laughed about it. But then a day or two later, he e-mailed me a note that reiterated his feelings about using deadly force, but in a more legal-sounding tone. I was a little surprised, but he was certainly serious about it, and wanted me to have it in writing so there wouldn't be any question about his intentions. I responded with a note with the exact same verbiage to him.

It may not be a lawyer-written document, but the fact that it came from his e-mail address, and basically has his electronic signature, I bet a grand jury would accept it as an official notice of intention. It's got to be a better deal than what Joe Horn dealt with. All that said, I hope I am never subjected to that kind of pressure and scrutiny.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

pdubyoo:

Condolences to your neighbor.

I assume you are armed at all times.

Does your bride have her own gun and would she willingly shoot when needed?

The next time the lawn crew is in your area, your house might be next.

SIA

[KD5NRH]

He was hoping that I saw something, which I did not. From my office, I can see the corner of his house, but would have to stand at the windows to see his front door or driveway.

Sounds like time for another plug for video surveillance, network-connected so the actual DVR can be secured somewhere out of sight while still allowing access from any computer in the house.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6881381065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
$400-600 is cheap compared to the savings and satisfaction when you hear "Aw s___, they got cameras. Forget it." Just one time and the unit pays for itself. That also put an end to my thoughts of painting the camera housings to blend in better.

[pdubyoo]

pdubyoo:

Condolences to your neighbor.

I assume you are armed at all times.

Does your bride have her own gun and would she willingly shoot when needed?

The next time the lawn crew is in your area, your house might be next.

SIA

SIA, I'm armed almost 24/7. Too many weird situations over the last few month...yesterday's encounter included. The wife recently sold her Taurus, and is currently unarmed, which greatly concerns me. She wants something lighter and smaller. I'm considering on of the mini-SA's or one of the feather-weight revolvers with the hidden hammer. I'm going on Gunbroker next.

[pdubyoo]

He was hoping that I saw something, which I did not. From my office, I can see the corner of his house, but would have to stand at the windows to see his front door or driveway.

Sounds like time for another plug for video surveillance, network-connected so the actual DVR can be secured somewhere out of sight while still allowing access from any computer in the house.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6881381065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
$400-600 is cheap compared to the savings and satisfaction when you hear "Aw s___, they got cameras. Forget it." Just one time and the unit pays for itself. That also put an end to my thoughts of painting the camera housings to blend in better.

This is in process. I'm giving an old computer a 2nd life, and turning it into a DVR/video surveilance system. It will be hidden, with a video output going to my television in my bedroom. My biggest problem right now is mounting the cameras, but that's a whole different issue.

[sneedb82]

The neighbor figures that the BG was probably startled by something, and bolted instead of finishing the job. Since the BG knows there’s a door that he couldn’t open, he probably equates that to something valuable being locked-up. The police think there’s a good possibility that the BG will come back. If he does, it might just be the last thing he does before meeting his maker.

It makes me ill that I didn’t see or hear anything, especially since it was in broad daylight. I don’t want to be another Joe Horn, but I do have written permission from my neighbor to use deadly force to defend his house, if I felt so inclined. I certainly don’t plan on playing cop though.

Just another reason to be armed at home. The BG was likely watching them and hit when he knew nobody was home. But, he couldn’t be 100% sure.

For the castle doctrine, if you are to offer your "protection" for a neighbor, it is IIRC stated permission....

In response though to the underlined and bold statements, the BGs prolly KNEW the guy is HPD officer, and therefore, the reason for the hit. More than likely, if the lawn crew was a cover (possibility), then they will come back again for a follow through... but again when the individuals are not there. However, the possibility is also that they come with more people, and better tools, to finish the job.... could mean lots of things.

Definitely pulling for your neighbor and yourself's stress, because that's a horrible thing to think about. Our old neighbors were robbed while we were visiting our old house (in-laws live there now)... and we didn't hear anything, nor the neighbor on the other side.

People(BGs) these days are getting braver, and it's alot to do with the Zetas and other Drug Cartel influenced gangs. I watch too much Gangland I know... but it's true. I'm armed daily... until I get to work. The wife's got my AR, her 20g SG, and a pistol.... thankfully, she knows how to use them all.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

pdubyoo:

Hop on getting a new piece into your bride's hands.
Or let her borrow one of yours, even if it's not "just right" for her perfect gun.

The first rule of a gunfight : Bring a gun!

SIA

[C-dub]

This brings up an interesting question. I am aware of the need for permission from a third party, but what if the third party is family? We live next to my wife's parents. Without documented permission, such as this, would I be within my rights to use deadly force to protect my in-laws if I saw something happening next door? I think so, but not sure.

[dicion]

This brings up an interesting question. I am aware of the need for permission from a third party, but what if the third party is family? We live next to my wife's parents. Without documented permission, such as this, would I be within my rights to use deadly force to protect my in-laws if I saw something happening next door? I think so, but not sure.

Family is specifically mentioned in the law as implied permission in most cases. Namely property owned by Parents/Children, Spouse, and some others.

Even if it wasn't, All they have to do is ask your family member "Did you give them permission" "Yes I did"
Plain and simple.

EDIT Found it:

[C-dub]

Should be easy enough. My entire family knows I carry and shouldn't have any problem with this. My sister is the most uneasy with my carrying, but even she has loosened up quite a bit over the years. I can't imagine that, if the need ever arose that would require me to use deadly force, they would not back me up. I'm their big brother and I've been protecting them their entire lives.

[pdubyoo]

I spotted my neighbor in front of his house today, talking with a contractor-looking dude. After they were through chatting, I went and asked if he and his wife are able to sleep at night yet, and he kinda laughed. I asked about Mr. Contractor, and he said that he's getting quotes on burglar bars. He's going to get burglar bars on all his windows and doors. Now, while I understand the reasoning, I'm not real pleased with his decision, aesthetically speaking. I think burglar bars are ugly, and in an upscale neighborhood, they tell a story of sorts to any potential real-estate buyers.

I didn't say anything negative to him about it. I did encourage him to make sure he gets permission from the HOA before proceeding though. They can be real sticky about stuff like that.

[Keith B]

I spotted my neighbor in front of his house today, talking with a contractor-looking dude. After they were through chatting, I went and asked if he and his wife are able to sleep at night yet, and he kinda laughed. I asked about Mr. Contractor, and he said that he's getting quotes on burglar bars. He's going to get burglar bars on all his windows and doors. Now, while I understand the reasoning, I'm not real pleased with his decision, aesthetically speaking. I think burglar bars are ugly, and in an upscale neighborhood, they tell a story of sorts to any potential real-estate buyers.

I didn't say anything negative to him about it. I did encourage him to make sure he gets permission from the HOA before proceeding though. They can be real sticky about stuff like that.

I think they would be money ahead to upgrade their alarm system with glass break and motion sensors vs. the amount bars cost. They probably would even have money left over to add some video surveillance. Plus, you already mentioned aesthetics and the homeowners association. On top of that, they need to make sure they have the capability to open them for an escape if they are trapped in a back section of the house during a fire.