Penalty For No Health Insurance? It Makes Me Sick

[casingpoint]

By all accounts, the health care package before Congress contains a provision requiring individuals to purchase health insurance. A penalty of over $3,000 is proposed on people who fail to do so, with an excluder for low income folks.

If a financially capable citizen refuses to by policy and is assessed the penalty, will the federal government have recourse to their personal income and assets to collect?

I reckon it's like Obama said when running for office, he'll "redistribute the wealth."

He didn't lie on that one.

[Beiruty]

So will the illegal immigrant some 12,000,000 persons pay the penalty, or as usual they are super citizens, pay no tax, free health care, free schooling!

[AEA]

I will not participate. My health care comes from the VA.

The Illegal Immigrants will still get free health care even it it is not in the bill. I don't understand all this arguing over this. I don't want to pay for them either but even if not in the bill, they will still be treated in emergency rooms for free!
Of course, no one is talking about that.

And another thing about Obama that I do not like.........
He plays the RACE card daily in our face and no one has called him on it.........

Just look at everyone he greets, he does the "Hood" greeting of handshake and chest bump. Makes me sick........he is either kissing someone's hand and apologizing for the USA or chest bumping like some crackhead when greeting both Blacks and Whites!

[joe817]

What's next?? Debtor's Prison for those who cannot afford health insurance? Oh wait! Health Insurance will be provide at no cost, right?

[Pete92FS]

If a financially capable citizen refuses to by policy and is assessed the penalty, will the federal government have recourse to their personal income and assets to collect?

I reckon it's like Obama said when running for office, he'll "redistribute the wealth."

He didn't lie on that one.

The Federal government already has recourse to your personal income and assets - it's called garnishment of wages and property seizures to pay back taxes.

What's next?? Debtor's Prison for those who cannot afford health insurance? Oh wait! Health Insurance will be provide at no cost, right?

No - it will be prison for those that can afford it but refuse to pay. If this passes you can not only go to the federal pen for tax evasion but also for refusing to get their mandated health insurance.

Our Chosen One is nothing but a Communist in disguise. Next thing you know he will try to hire Putin to run his special police force he's going to need to enforce all these special laws. His KGB experience will come in handy. Next come the gulags.

[Mithras61]

I've done some research on the question of what is currently in the so-called health care reform bills in DC. There is a provision in at least one version of the bill that includes both the mandate to carry insurance (with penalties added through in the income tax forms & collections) and proof of citizenship before treatment could be given. In the other bills, you would still have to provide proof of insurance (there isn't a universal single payer solution or NHS-style coverage like they have in CA or UK in any of the bills that are seriously being debated by Dems) for any treatment, because none of them do away with insurance as we currently know it.

The majority of all the bills currently revolve around regulation of insurance (such things as minimum coverage requirements, anti-trust enforcement, no more 'preexisting conditions' denials, and so on with little in the way of means to enforce these changes) and the requirement for the states to create and manage some form of health insurance exchange or co-op for their own state (so TX would have a co-op for Texans) that would offer insurance packages from health insurance providers (Blue Cross, UnitedHealth, Kaiser Permanente, and so on) to people who don't have insurance through other means (employer-based, VA, Medicare, etc.). There doesn't appear to be any form of self-insurance like we can go with on automobiles.

There is also a subsidy for people making up to a certain factor of the poverty level (depends on which bill, but usually 3x or 4x the poverty level) that helps defray the costs of the plan to the purchaser (of course, this is picked up by the Fed. government/you & me), and for people who still can't get coverage there will in some of the plans be an option for a government managed (but not funded) insurance package that is intended to reduce the low-cost option even further (although most people understand this would mean essentially non-coverage).

Basically, what I'm seeing is a back-door tax of us paid to the insurance corporations with a small amount paid through the federal government and most of it paid directly through "insurance premiums" with some minor changes to the conditinos under which the insurance corps operate now that wioll simply change the way they handle things like denials of coverage & rescissions (revoking of your policy).

[The Annoyed Man]

...and the requirement for the states to create and manage some form of health insurance exchange or co-op for their own state (so TX would have a co-op for Texans) that would offer insurance packages from health insurance providers (Blue Cross, UnitedHealth, Kaiser Permanente, and so on) to people who don't have insurance through other means (employer-based, VA, Medicare, etc.).

Texas already has such a thing. It is called the Texas Health Insurance Risk Pool, and nobody who has been denied regular health insurance policies can afford the dang thing.

I have several pre-existing conditions:

• I have been taking blood pressure meds for 15 years now, and my pressures routinely run around 110/70, but that is one of the reasons Blue Cross won't take me.
• I had Graves Disease in 1999 and had to have my thyroid gland ablated, and I've been dependent on a daily thyroid pill since then.
• I had back surgery in 2004, fusing my L4/L5 vertebrae and some titanium rods and screws put in.
• Partly because of the thyroid issue, and partly because my mobility is somewhat limited due to the back issues, I also struggle with keeping my weight down, but I am also having some success recently in losing weight.
• I have had BPH for a couple of years, and I take a medication to keep that under control.
• I am 57 years old.

However, despite that history, and despite the physical limits placed on me by my back, I am actually in good health, with a good resting heart rate, particularly good blood pressure levels for my age, etc. I exercise regularly. If you looked at me, you would not have the impression of a sickly person.

Blue Cross won't touch me. Period. Cigna won't touch me. Period. Unicare won't touch me. Period. I can buy a policy through my business that will cover my wife and me, but the minimum cost is almost $1000/month (when my wife has her own very good policy through Cigna that costs $290/month).

The Texas risk pool will sell me a policy that costs me $495/month, but for that, I have to spend $12,500 out of pocket ($7,500 deductible + $5,000 coinsurance) before the insurance really kicks in. In other words, in any given year, I will spend $4,950.00 for premiums, in order to have a policy that will require me to spend another $12,500.00 on top of that — for a total of $17,450.00 — in one year.

In the meantime, I see my regular physician twice a year, get weighed, have my blood pressure checked, give a blood sample, pee in a cup, and it costs me about $80 for the visit, and $250.00 in lab fees. My prescriptions run about $40/month. So my total annual medical outlay is $1,140.00.

The reason I can't afford the insurance is that my business is struggling in the current business climate, and I can afford to pay for my wife's insurance, but not my own. Taking care of my own medical needs out of pocket is much much less expensive. I own my home free and clear, and I can borrow at least a quarter million dollars against it if I have to to pay for a catastrophic need. If Congress passes a bill that requires me to pay a penalty of several thousand dollars (annually) for not being insured either through a private policy or a public option, it will bankrupt me. It will kill my business. And I will be just one more unemployed American.

And I am not the only one out there in this same boat.

They are fools rushing in where angels fear to tread, and they have no understanding of the laws of unintended consequences. When you add to that the fact that most of them are either distrustful of, or openly hostile to, capitalism, you have a recipe for absolute economic disaster. If you think times are tough now, wait until national healthcare is rammed down our throats.

[Mithras61]

...

The reason I can't afford the insurance is that my business is struggling in the current business climate, and I can afford to pay for my wife's insurance, but not my own. Taking care of my own medical needs out of pocket is much much less expensive. I own my home free and clear, and I can borrow at least a quarter million dollars against it if I have to to pay for a catastrophic need. If Congress passes a bill that requires me to pay a penalty of several thousand dollars (annually) for not being insured either through a private policy or a public option, it will bankrupt me. It will kill my business. And I will be just one more unemployed American.

And I am not the only one out there in this same boat.

They are fools rushing in where angels fear to tread, and they have no understanding of the laws of unintended consequences. When you add to that the fact that most of them are either distrustful of, or openly hostile to, capitalism, you have a recipe for absolute economic disaster. If you think times are tough now, wait until national healthcare is rammed down our throats.

Oh, I agree with you on this, I just think that we should be mad about the actuality of the bills, not some smoke & mirrors baloney. I saw an analysis that showed how under the Senate Finance Committee plan, a family with $67,000 gross income would end up with about $2,500 for car, credit cards, clothing, utilities and so on, after paying taxes, health insurance, house note & buying food.

The whole thing seems beyond stupid to me.

[bpet]

Come on guys, where's the trust? Mandatory health insurance is a great thing and I'm sure will drastically reduce the cost of insurance for those of us that have opted to pay the price without it being law (sarcasm now off). Just look at the example that automobile insurance provides.

Automobile insurance is mandatory (as in "required by law") and when was the last time you had a problem collecting on an accident caused by some schmuck who was uninsured?

Has only happened to me twice out of two opportunities. Oh yeah, I also have uninsured motorist coverage on my policy that I pay for. I especially like those who buy a policy and then cancel after the first month. Clever!!! But, I digress.


My point?

Just because it happens to be law, doesn't mean it will be enforced, and we will still have to pay for those that choose to ignore the rules. So I say again, Where's the trust?

[Kythas]

If a financially capable citizen refuses to by policy and is assessed the penalty, will the federal government have recourse to their personal income and assets to collect?

Yes, the bill currently proposed by the House would give the Federal government direct access to everyone's bank account. In addition, it makes the IRS the enforcer of the law.

[Kythas]

TAM, I completely agree with you and am in the same boat.

I used to do independent contracting and could not get health insurance due to the following:
1. High blood pressure (regulated very well by medication)
2. Meniere's Disease. This is a disease of the inner ear which affects balance and equilibrium. Possibly a result of an injury I sustained in the Gulf War, but that's not able to be proven as doctors don't know what causes it.
3. An artificial hip, the result of an injury I sustained when I worked in law enforcement, and is the reason I'm no longer in law enforcement.

I was turned down by three insurance companies and had to quit consulting and work for a company which provides health insurance, as I didn't want to be without insurance.

In my opinion, the following are all that need to be done to bring down health care costs and provide coverage for most everyone (at least, everyone who WANTS coverage):

1. Eliminate the ability of insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. I would accept being placed in a high risk pool and paying a premium, but I should not be denied.
2. Allow health insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines. If GEICO, in Virginia, can sell me car insurance in Texas, why couldn't they also sell me health insurance?
3. Health Savings Accounts. Allow all Americans to put pre-tax money into an HSA to pay out of pocket costs. The money in these accounts would be rolled over from year to year, so you don't lose what you put in at the end of the year.
4. Individual ownership of insurance policies. Eliminate the current practice of employers providing health insurance. Currently, we're tied to the policy our employer wants, not what we want. This would increase competition and lower costs, if we shopped for health insurance like we do car or home owners insurance.
5. Kill Medicaid. Give vouchers to low income families for health costs to replace Medicaid. This would also increase competition and lower costs, as currently, doctors lose money on Medicaid patients and pass those losses onto those of us with insurance.
6. Allow Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practitioners to provide much of the primary care currently provided by doctors, up to the limits of their training. Many of the things we see doctors for can be done by non-physicians, but are currently not legally allowed. This would provide access to primary care and lower costs, as PAs and NPs don't charge as much.
7. Tort reform.

[snorri]

That's what Obama and his supporters mean by a single payer system.

The taxpayers pay for health care for politicians.
The taxpayers pay for health care for government employees.
The taxpayers pay for health care for old people on Medicare.
The taxpayers pay for health care for poor people on Medicaid.
The taxpayers pay for health care for murderers and rapists in prison.
The taxpayers pay for health care in emergency rooms for illegals with no insurance.
and
The taxpayers have to pay their own health insurance.

[pdubyoo]

Our Chosen One is nothing but a Communist in disguise. Next thing you know he will try to hire Putin to run his special police force he's going to need to enforce all these special laws. His KGB experience will come in handy. Next come the gulags.

He was in disquise before the election, but now he's letting his communism hang out there for everyone to see. He's not trying to be discrete about it either...look at most of his close associations.

[nitrogen]

If a financially capable citizen refuses to by policy and is assessed the penalty, will the federal government have recourse to their personal income and assets to collect?

Yes, the bill currently proposed by the House would give the Federal government direct access to everyone's bank account. In addition, it makes the IRS the enforcer of the law.

Source?

[LostInAustin]

This is insane. How could they possibly think that this will help fix the problem!??