Texas City: Expanded police presence

[seamusTX]

I offer the following article without comment:

http://www.galvnews.com/story.lasso?ewc ... dc0013ed05" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Oldgringo]

Some people should be stopped and questioned on sight. Do I get to pick 'em?

[kidder014]

Hmm... next time I am pulled over, I've got to try this. "Officer, I am too busy to talk to you right now" ...as I drive off...

I wonder how that would turn out.

[TDDude]

As long as the police chief or sheriff Is an honorable man, this can be a good policy but if that position gets filled with a scoundrel, as was the case in a county north of Humble in the early 80's, (I don't remember the county name right now) it can go to heck very quickly. My prayer is that the town counil, mayor, or whomever, will keep the police accountable to the spirit of the law.

That said, a line from the movie "The Untouchables" comes to mind. Kevin Costner and Sean Connery are about to go on their first meaningful raid and it's in a bank building. "HERE?? In the BANK??". To which Connery's character replies, "Everyone knows where the booze is. The question is 'Who wants to cross Capone?'".

The police, if they are worth the money they are being paid, know who the bad guys are. The question is being able to actually catch them in the act of something. Randomly stopping a profiled person, vehicle, or both is a great tool in preventing crime and I'm all for it.

[seamusTX]

As long as the police chief or sherriff Is an honorable man, this can be a good policy but if that position gets filled with a scoundrel, ...

The intent of the U.S. and state constitutions is to prevent corrupt or incompetent officials from doing much damage before their terms run out or (in extreme cases) they are impeached.

My prayer is that the town counil, mayor, or whomever, will keep the police accountable to the spirit of the law.

Texas City is typical of smaller Texas cities. The police chief answers to the city manager, who is not an elected official. The mayor and city council members cannot give direct orders to the police department.

- Jim

[Keith B]

Texas City is typical of smaller Texas cities. The police chief answers to the city manager, who is not an elected official. The mayor and city council members cannot give direct orders to the police department.

This is why my Brother-In-Law decided to step down as Chief of a small town in Missouri after 6 years of being well respected in the position. They had hired a new City Manager that he didn't see eye-to-eye with my BIL on items and thought he knew how to handle law enforcement better than a 20+ year veteran LEO with a degree in criminal justice. They agreed to part ways, and he took a Captain's job within the department. The guy that they hired as the new Chief was a long time law enforcement person in the area and good friend of my BIL. They got along great and my BIL helped the new Chief get on board without having to deal with the 7x24x365 headaches of a Chief. And while the Mayor and Council can't give orders to the Police Department, they can have a pretty good influence on the City Manager. The new City Manager didn't last long.

After about 3 years my BIL even took the Assistant Chief's job for a little over a year before retiring (which gave him a little boost in his pension.)

[chabouk]

I offer the following article without comment:

http://www.galvnews.com/story.lasso?ewc ... dc0013ed05" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

The article says:

“We see a guy who we know is usually up to no good and he is on the west side but normally works the east side,” Burby said. “We ask, what’s he doing over here?”

Officers will stop the man, ask for his identification and talk to him while police dispatchers check to see whether there are warrants for his arrest. In some cases, officers will pat the person down “as a matter of police safety,” Burby said.

The practice is called stop and frisk and is a common police practice in large cities. It is legal, thanks to a 1968 Supreme Court decision that established the bench mark of “reasonable suspicion” — a standard that is lower than the “probable cause” needed to justify an arrest.

Umm, no. Major fail. Terry v. Ohio requires a Reasonable Articulable Suspicion, based on the officer's experience, that "crime is afoot", in order to detain someone. The pat-down, commonly called a "Terry search", requires the additional RAS that the person is presently armed and dangerous. When those tests are met, the officer may pat down the exterior clothing to feel for a weapon, but may not reach into pockets, nor act on anything he feels that doesn't feel like a weapon.

Stopping and frisking people on a generalized suspicion has never been allowed in any SCOTUS ruling to my knowledge.

[seamusTX]

I think any experienced police officer can articulate a reasonable suspicion, especially with men who dress in gangster fashion which is intended to conceal weapons.

The people that they're stopping are not going to run out and hire a lawyer to sue for a civil rights violation.

- Jim

[Y2bad4u]

Im sure "usually up to no good" means someone they have had a run in with, or ex felon. Which to me says, they prob are doing, going to do something illegal and especially if they have been a danger, that they are a danger to others.

[TDDude]

As long as the police chief or sheriff Is an honorable man, this can be a good policy but if that position gets filled with a scoundrel, ...

The intent of the U.S. and state constitutions is to prevent corrupt or incompetent officials from doing much damage before their terms run out or (in extreme cases) they are impeached.
- Jim

I understand but it sometimes takes a while. I'll have to pull that book out of the "top shelf" and look up some details. It's been awhile since I read it. The book is called "Terror on Highway 59" and it basically chronicles the antics of an east Texas sheriff's department that routinely pulled over out of town cars, cars with rock radio station bumper stickers, and so forth. The driver was then ticketed or arrested for some trumped up charge. They would then be taken to the sheriffs office where a deputy would set the bail, and then the driver was released.

The odd, and really illegal part (besides having law enforcement set bail) is that charges were rarely, if ever filed on any of these people. It was just a money scam. Drivers were pulled over, cars were impounded, drivers were taken to jail but not booked, bail was set by a deputy or sometimes a deputies girlfriend if it was a busy night, bail was paid, the tow fee was paid, and the driver gets to leave but several hundred dollars poorer. The driver checks back to see when the court date is and no charges or any record of the arrest exists.

They ultimately got busted because they railroaded a couple of FBI agents who were on vacation and happened to be traveling through the area. The deputies were too dumb to realize the trouble they would get into by not just letting those two go.

A Houston reporter wrote the book and all this happened back in the 80's.

The sheriff and most of the deputies ended up in prison but that scam was going on for years.

My dad, a lifelong LEO with the state of Texas, warned me back in the mid 70's, as soon as I got a learner's permit and started driving on my own, that I should stay the heck away from that area of east Texas.

I guess my point is that people need to keep an eye out. Random stops of suspicios vehicles are a great tool but the few examples of abuse ruin it for all.

[seamusTX]

I guess my point is that people need to keep an eye out. Random stops of suspicios vehicles is a great tool but the few examples of abuse ruin it for all.

I agree, and my earlier comment was obscure. We have the fourth amendment. We have multiple layers of the justice system where wrongs can be set right. If we don't actively keep the system working, the police and other government officials can become indistinguishable from the Mafia.

- Jim

[57Coastie]

The people that they're stopping are not going to run out and hire a lawyer to sue for a civil rights violation.

- Jim

Knowing you, as I do, Jim, I am confident that I misread this sentence. At first it sounded like persons who cannot afford a remedy are fair game, regardless of the right or wrong of it.

Jim B

[seamusTX]

Jim,

I did not mean that the people who were being stopped and questioned deserved it. I have commented on various types of profiling many times on this forum and elsewhere.

I meant that what the Texas City police are doing is unlikely to result in a court order or judgment that makes them stop.

I also find it troubling that a Texas City Commissioner who was stopped because his car was "hooptie" (whatever that means) endorsed the effort.

- Jim

[Keith B]

I also find it troubling that a Texas City Commissioner who was stopped because his car was "hooptie" (whatever that means) endorsed the effort.

- Jim

A 'hooptie' is the new urban slang for a clunker or beater car.

[seamusTX]

Thank you. I need to get out more.

Of course, people who drive expensive new cars never commit crimes, so this practice helps the police to focus on the usual suspects.

- Jim