Revolvers & XD's: Best for contact shooting of BG's.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

This afternoon I was reading a gun magazine at my favorite
library, Wally World.

In it, Mr. Massad Ayoob gave a review on the Springfield Armory
XD45 with the manual safety. (Big thumbs up).
A Springer insider guesstimated that about 1/3 of all XD45's are
the models WITH the thumb safety.

As an aside, he mentioned that if you ever have to wrestle with a
BG and need to shoot him with your gun in contact with his body,
the best handguns to have in that scenario would be a revolver
or an XD.

Revolver: Since there is no slide to worry about, you can keep
pulling the trigger and empty it into the BG if necessary.

XD: The gist of why an XD would be better than any other
semi-auto (or most other semi-auto's) is that you can press an XD into
the bad guy and the slide can still cycle correctly. This is due to
a part under the barrel which protrudes enough to allow the slide
to do its thing.

He mentioned that most other semi-auto's would not cycle correctly
if pressed against a BG and you tried to fire it.

He explained it better than I but you get the general idea.

I guess the point is, that if you were in a close fight like this, if
you own a semi-auto that's not an XD, you would have to think
about holding your weapon a little bit away from the BG's body
in order for your gun to go into battery properly and facilitate
multiple shots.

I'm not a CQB (Close Quarters Battle) specialist, but I did stay
a Holiday Inn Express last night. YMMV.

SIA

[Beiruty]

if your adversary is too close to get hold of your pistol's slide, it might be too late. Any pistol, can be forced into out of battery by forcing the slide back

[MadMonkey]

Wouldn't something like a Beretta 92 also be able to cycle correctly since there is some barrel protruding past the slide?

[srothstein]

By other semi-autos, the insider might have been referring to pistols like 1911's. They have a ball disconnect to prevent firing if the slide is pushed back about 1/4" (IIRC). Of course, in the other thread about XD's we see the problem with allowing the weapon to cycle with the slide slightly out of battery. It is a personal choice to decide which risk you prefer.

[TheBrit]

In it, Mr. Massad Ayoob gave a review on the Springfield Armory
XD45 with the manual safety. (Big thumbs up).

A Springer insider guesstimated that about 1/3 of all XD45's are
the models WITH the thumb safety.

As an XD 45 owner I'm curious as to why you think the manual safety is important? It was added, I believe, to aid sales to LEO and Military (some forces demand handguns have a safety). Had the XD only come with a safety I would not have bought the XD45 nor the XD9 for my wife. None of my handguns has a manual safety, and I would not own one that did.

[Abraham]

That's what the bayonet's for...

(Personally, I'm waiting for the bayonet to be re-designed to multi-task as a bottle opener/screwdriver/magnifying glass and whistle before I install one on my Glock)

[MoJo]

Ah, gun rags , comic books for grownups!

Mr. Ayoob really knows his stuff about self-defense - - - when it comes to guns - - -??? I bet there was a BIG 'OL SPRINGFIELD XD AD somewhere in that magazine.

Now, about contact shots ANY pistol will disconnect if pressed into something soft and most will disconnect if pressed against something hard. The little gizmo on the XD guide rod is to prevent the gun from disconnecting when pressed into something hard or at least firm. I took my XD9 and dry fired it pressing it into a pillow, it wouldn't shoot, I pressed it against a piece of furniture, it shot. You can not rely on gadgets to survive, use your head.

Here's a bayonet that attaches to the rail on your pistol.

[Abraham]

Holstering can be quite the problem with ye ole bayonet fixed...

[casingpoint]

I think if you will read Ayoob closely, if he was limited to owning only one handgun, my guess is it would be a Smith J frame with a two inch barrel. In close quarters, the hammerless models are probably best. However, since a J frame is all I normally carry on body, I like the hammer in case I need pin point accuracy at a distance. I have stayed at a lot of Holliday Inns over the years, but never at a Holiday Inn Express, so take the above with a grain of salt. And beware The Ninja in you. To have Zen within is mo' better.

[gir]

As an XD 45 owner I'm curious as to why you think the manual safety is important? It was added, I believe, to aid sales to LEO and Military (some forces demand handguns have a safety).

I have an XD9sc and would have preferred one with a manual safety. I keep a couple of guns loaded (and hidden) in the house and although our kids are adults now we sometimes have company including small children. I keep a Colt Commander cocked and locked in the living area specifically because it *does* have a manual safety and even though it's hidden anyone who has had children knows how quickly they can turn a room upside down and what we think is "out of reach" doesn't always turn out to be. The XD stays loaded in the bedroom in a spot even more protected. I'm very careful about making sure guns are secured *before* any children come over, and I will remove the guns from the living area, but i don't always know when that will be and I'm not always home. For me the manual safety is a worst case measure that adds a small level of comfort. My wife, who is quite small, can work the safety on the Colt but she's not strong enough to just flick it off with her thumb--she uses her non-shooting hand. She also does not have the hand-strength to quickly and safely rack the slide on either the Colt or the XD so having a round in the chamber is our best solution.

I have been teased by Glock owners because of the grip safety on the XD with them saying it is totally unnecessary and yet it is one of the reasons I bought the XD instead of a Glock. I trust myself with a Glock but I can't 100% guarantee that I will be the only one that ever has access to the gun. I don't think a manual safety is necessary on a carry weapon but Just because it's on the gun doesn't mean you have to use it--I would just like the option for the times when I'm not carrying it.

Sorry to be long-winded, I just wanted to explain why some folks are okay with manual safeties, and I'll be the first to agree that you give up some speed when you use them.

[casingpoint]

A grip saftey is still cocked and locked. Is it failsafe? I dunno. The only sure thing on a semi auto is a decocker.

[3dfxMM]

How is that a sure thing?

[surprise_i'm_armed]

In it, Mr. Massad Ayoob gave a review on the Springfield Armory
XD45 with the manual safety. (Big thumbs up).

A Springer insider guesstimated that about 1/3 of all XD45's are
the models WITH the thumb safety.

As an XD 45 owner I'm curious as to why you think the manual safety is important? It was added, I believe, to aid sales to LEO and Military (some forces demand handguns have a safety). Had the XD only come with a safety I would not have bought the XD45 nor the XD9 for my wife. None of my handguns has a manual safety, and I would not own one that did.

TheBrit:
My OP was rather non-committal on the thumb safety issue. The "thumbs up" comment I stated
was Mr. Ayoob's assessment of the XD45 with thumb safety.

That being said, I AM comfortable with a manual safety. I would not own a Glock due to
lack of backup safety other than the double trigger, plus I have shot a Glock and the
ergonomics of holding it were unappealing to me.

XD's have a wide variety of models (caliber, size of grip, barrel length, with or without manual safety)
and if I got a .45 I would prefer one with the manual safety, but I would also be fine with
other XD models because they have a double trigger and the grip safety. 2 safeties are fine w/ me.

Some people want a point and shoot gun without a manual safety.
Some people are comfortable with a manual of arms which includes snicking the safety to fire.

Whatever floats your boat. It's all good.

SIA

[chabouk]

I think choosing a pistol based on the "What if you have to make a contact shot?" scenarios fall into the same range as "But what if he's wearing Class III armor? With a ceramic trauma plate? And I have to do a tactical roll to pull my .380 BUG from the ankle holster to take a hundred yard shot?" level of silly over-thinking.

Here's the thing about carrying a gun: there is no perfect solution. Every "what if" scenario can be best countered by looking at what you could do to avoid being in that situation in the first place, not which firearm/ammo/holster/carry method would be perfect for that particular situation.

[MoJo]

Now, why don't we find something else to about.