Upstate New York Gun Laws....

[03Lightningrocks]

Interesting thing happened today I wanted to share. I had sold a pre-ban AK47 to a guy from Upstate new York. His FFL initially said it was no problem. This guy looked up all the laws on this issue and found that all was good to go. Suddenly today, his FFL backs out and tells him he isn't worried about the BATF, he is afraid of the State Police. The buyer asked him why and reminded him that it was a perfectly legal purchase. His FFL told him he could not risk it as the attitude concerning firearms in New York is that you are guilty until proven innocent. He has been shot down by two or three others now and there is absolutely nothing illegal about transferring this weapon and every single FFL acknowledges this. The state police up there have these FFLs terrified. We should all hit our knees now and thank god we live in Texas.

[marksiwel]

Interesting thing happened today I wanted to share. I had sold a pre-ban AK47 to a guy from Upstate new York. His FFL initially said it was no problem. This guy looked up all the laws on this issue and found that all was good to go. Suddenly today, his FFL backs out and tells him he isn't worried about the BATF, he is afraid of the State Police. The buyer asked him why and reminded him that it was a perfectly legal purchase. His FFL told him he could not risk it as the attitude concerning firearms in New York is that you are guilty until proven innocent. He has been shot down by two or three others now and there is absolutely nothing illegal about transferring this weapon and every single FFL acknowledges this. The state police up there have these FFLs terrified. We should all hit our knees now and thank god we live in Texas.

Its sad that they cant even practice their profession in a legal manner without the threat of un due Police Interference.

[jimlongley]

I had the misfortune of being removed from my native San Antonio when I was too young to defend myself, and forced to grow up in upstate NY.

The NY State Pistol Permit Bureau are a godlike agency unto themselves, their interpretation of the laws is what MOST (not all) judges accept as being the right interpretation: One case in point, which may have changed but I expect not; NY law exempts "antique" firearms from the law as far as possession is concerned, but if you possess ammuniton for same, it is then considered to be loaded, even if it is a flintlock and you merely have black powder and lead, not cast, and including bullets of the wrong caliber.

The rest of the NY State Police firearms section is equally impossible to deal with. A person I know of inherited guns from his father, but due to procedural problems involving the estate, the guns were turned over to the State Police, which is part of the law. The settlement dragged on for some time, and when things were finally doe, they refused to turn them over to him for a couple of different reasons, and then when he finally fought his way through the bureaucracy to get them "administratively" turned over to him, they had reached the statutory limit for the State Police to retain them, and they had been destroyed.

Of course this was more then 20 years ago, and things may have changed, but as a Life Member of the NYSR&PA I get the newsletter, and have never heard of any improvement.

[03Lightningrocks]

What a terrible story Jim! How do they get away with this stuff??? The citizens should stand up against that kind of tyranny. The part of this that really get's to me is that all the FFL's this guy has talked to, acknowledge that the rifle is perfectly legal in New York. They are all just terrified of the State Police. Sad...very sad indeed.

[Oldgringo]

03Lightningrocks wrote:

The citizens should stand up against that kind of tyranny.

For better or worse, the citizens are the ones who elect the tyrants who appoint the judges and hire the state police.

[03Lightningrocks]

The thought I have is that the citizens are so afraid of harm from guns, they allow the government all the latitude they need to eliminate them. This situation reminds me of some of the posts we read here concerning standing up for our rights when a sign banning us from entry is illegal. How many times have I read someone post the old bit about not wanting to be the test case. That is exactly what is happening in New York. Nobody is willing to risk their own personal welfare to change the situation. I wonder what would have happened to our country if our founding fathers thought in the same way?

[marksiwel]

The thought I have is that the citizens are so afraid of harm from guns, they allow the government all the latitude they need to eliminate them. This situation reminds me of some of the posts we read here concerning standing up for our rights when a sign banning us from entry is illegal. How many times have I read someone post the old bit about not wanting to be the test case. That is exactly what is happening in New York. Nobody is willing to risk their own personal welfare to change the situation. I wonder what would have happened to our country if our founding fathers thought in the same way?

at the end of the Revolutionary war there were more Americans fighting FOR the British than against

[wgoforth]

I was selling a pistol to a friend in upstate NY and was going to ship it to an FFL in his town. I called the FFL and asked about it, and he said that I had to send a spent casing to the local police dept for them to keep on file in case there is ever a crime committed with it, they can match the ballistics. Then my friend had to go to the police station and apply for my gun and could take 6 months. I ~doubt~ the dealer was correct, but at least shows that the local dealers are apparently buffaloed into what to do by the powers that be.

[dicion]

I was selling a pistol to a friend in upstate NY and was going to ship it to an FFL in his town. I called the FFL and asked about it, and he said that I had to send a spent casing to the local police dept for them to keep on file in case there is ever a crime committed with it, they can match the ballistics. Then my friend had to go to the police station and apply for my gun and could take 6 months. I ~doubt~ the dealer was correct, but at least shows that the local dealers are apparently buffaloed into what to do by the powers that be.

Actually, for a handgun, this is at least partially correct, if he doesn't already have a handgun license, that would be the 6 month wait and police station.
I don't know about the spent casing, but It wouldn't surprise me.

You need a handgun license in NY state just to OWN one, and getting one there is more involved & a PITA than applying for a Tax Stamp from the ATF for a Title II weapon!

I used to live there, and my family is all from there, and still lives there, so I know how much of a PITA it is.

[Oldgringo]

I was selling a pistol to a friend in upstate NY and was going to ship it to an FFL in his town. I called the FFL and asked about it, and he said that I had to send a spent casing to the local police dept for them to keep on file in case there is ever a crime committed with it, they can match the ballistics. Then my friend had to go to the police station and apply for my gun and could take 6 months. I ~doubt~ the dealer was correct, but at least shows that the local dealers are apparently buffaloed into what to do by the powers that be.

Absent the microscope, etc., one spent case of a given caliber is the same as any other spent case of that same caliber isn't it?

I guess what it boils down to is that Kalifornia needs to slide off the left coast and New Yawk needs to slide off the other left coast while the New Madrid fault opens up and swallows Chicago. Then we will get to hear what Pat Robertson has to say about that.

[03Lightningrocks]

I guess what it boils down to is that Kalifornia needs to slide off the left coast and New Yawk needs to slide off the other left coast while the New Madrid fault opens up and swallows Chicago. Then we will get to hear what Pat Robertson has to say about that.

He just emailed me. He found a dealer who would do it but his dealer said he has to have written documentation that it came in pre-ban!!! Again...there is no such law in upstate New York. It appears the State Police harass these guys so much the FFL's create a gun ban. The stampings on the gun clearly prove the gun is pre-ban. I suppose this is not good enough. Apparently the issue that is going on works this way. The State Police assume the rifle is a banned weapon unless you can prove with written documentation that it is not. They confiscate the weapon and it is up to you to fight the system to get it back. I am just floored by this whole situation. I feel sorry for the poor guy trying to buy this rifle. Like I said before...THANK GOD I LIVE IN TEXAS!!!

[jmorris]

...
Absent the microscope, etc., one spent case of a given caliber is the same as any other spent case of that same caliber isn't it?
...

Firing pin indention is used to link casings to a firearm.

[jimlongley]

I was selling a pistol to a friend in upstate NY and was going to ship it to an FFL in his town. I called the FFL and asked about it, and he said that I had to send a spent casing to the local police dept for them to keep on file in case there is ever a crime committed with it, they can match the ballistics. Then my friend had to go to the police station and apply for my gun and could take 6 months. I ~doubt~ the dealer was correct, but at least shows that the local dealers are apparently buffaloed into what to do by the powers that be.

Actually, for a handgun, this is at least partially correct, if he doesn't already have a handgun license, that would be the 6 month wait and police station.
I don't know about the spent casing, but It wouldn't surprise me.

You need a handgun license in NY state just to OWN one, and getting one there is more involved & a PITA than applying for a Tax Stamp from the ATF for a Title II weapon!

I used to live there, and my family is all from there, and still lives there, so I know how much of a PITA it is.

Yes, apply for the permit, with the particulars for the specific gun, which has to be paid for and held at the dealer (I don't know about how it works getting one from another state, that was still illegal while I was there) until the permit is approved. If the permit is not approved, which happens a lot, you are out the funds, plus a possible holding charge from the dealer, and little or no recourse.

A bunch of years ago I inherited a .380 Dryse and a Browning .22 target semi-auto. I did not have a NY Pistol Permit, so the executor turned them over to a dealer who was going to hold them for me. The dealer retired an moved to another state and wrote me that since he would be unable to return the guns to under the laws in effect in NY at the time, even if I got a permit, that he should sell them for me, or I should arrange to transfer them to someone in another state to hold them for me unil I left NY. He sold them, and unfortunately I moved a few months later to IL where I could have had them.

Ironically, when I bought my first rifle, it was also in NY, off the wall in the general store/gas station down in the village, just after my twelfth birthday. I rode down and got it on my bicycle and rode home with it across the handlebars. Nobody thought twice.

[03Lightningrocks]

Ironically, when I bought my first rifle, it was also in NY, off the wall in the general store/gas station down in the village, just after my twelfth birthday. I rode down and got it on my bicycle and rode home with it across the handlebars. Nobody thought twice.

That same situation might get you thrown in jail in present day New York. The feller finally got it resolved. He confirmed the issue was a fear of the State Police. My buyer got in touch with Kengs, the importer, and they confirmed the serial and model number were a pre-ban import. They would not put this information in writing to anyone other than the ATF . After my buyer begged and pleaded with his FFL, the FFL told him he would do it but if anything went wrong it was on him to prove it was a pre-ban weapon. WOW!!!! This situation has been an eye opener for me. Anyway...he got it done, now he just has to hope the State Gestapo don't come rushing in and confiscate the weapon from him.

[Dave01]

I was selling a pistol to a friend in upstate NY and was going to ship it to an FFL in his town. I called the FFL and asked about it, and he said that I had to send a spent casing to the local police dept for them to keep on file in case there is ever a crime committed with it, they can match the ballistics. Then my friend had to go to the police station and apply for my gun and could take 6 months. I ~doubt~ the dealer was correct, but at least shows that the local dealers are apparently buffaloed into what to do by the powers that be.

I believe every word of this. There is also a fun regulation where you have to reside in the state for 6-12 months (I forget the exact number) before you can even APPLY for a pistol permit. If you move to the state, it can take 1-1.5 years to get a permit, assuming you get approved. If you move to the state and want to bring a handgun, you have to surrender it to the local Police. They will hold it for you until you are properly permitted. I don't know what would happen to your weapon(s) if you were denied.