NFA Trust help - or other route

[gigag04]

So, I've been reading this afternoon and I'm still not sure how to do this. I want to own some NFA firearms. From I can glean it's a $200 tax stamp for every NFA item, so the 10.5" HK 416 I want with select fire and a can will run $600 in taxes.

What I don't follow is what setting up a trust does for me. I *think* that the trust makes it easier to buy multiple NFA weapons. I know some of you have done it. If you have done this please advise. I'd even be willing to meet up in the North Houston/Brazos Valley area and buy you a beer or some coffee to line out what I need to do.

Getting the LEO sign off shouldn't be hard as he is my boss, but not sure which forms, and who to contact. Houston ATF has been unresponsive so far. I'm sure they're busy fighting federal crime.

Also is it possible for me to purchase NFA type stuff directly from the mfgr? I know LMT sells SBR and select fire uppers - so is this a route I could go?

Thanks.

[tacticool]

A trust doesn't need the CLEO signature. A natural person does.

What I don't follow is what setting up a trust does for me.

Getting the LEO sign off shouldn't be hard as he is my boss,

[gigag04]

Shows what I know. I can't be sure what is fact or fiction with my google-fu that I've been working on this.

[dicion]

Also, if registered under a person, only that person may "posses" the item. Eg, You Can let someone else fire it while you're there, but you can't let the wife take it to the range herself.
A trust can have multiple persons assigned as agents of the trust, so multiple persons can possess the item under the trust.

Also, if you were to untimely expire, if it was in your name, it would have to be surrendered to the ATF until someone else got a tax stamp for it. Under a trust, another person can simply retain possession of it.

[gigag04]

Ok. So how do I set up a trust that owns NFA weapons?

[ske1eter]

Ok. So how do I set up a trust that owns NFA weapons?

I contacted a lawyer that was part of a kind of retainer service that we could pay for at work. Anyway, I told them that I wanted to set up a Revocable Living Trust and made up an appointment. They had what was basically standard types of forms and almost as easy as "fill in the blank". There had to be something of value placed in the trust so I put my house in it. I was in and out in under an hour.

When the trust was "official", I contacted a Class III dealer to buy a suppressor. He helped fill out the proper form plus sent in the copy of the trust. Then waited. I got mine in about 2 months but I've heard it's a bit longer now.

[mbw]

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this, but it is my understanding that no one who is not law enforcement or a military unit can buy newly manufactured select-fire or full auto weapons. The gun bill that Clinton passed stopped that. The only weapons that a citizen can buy are those that were manufactured B4 the ban went into place. That is why some CAR’s go for $10,000 and the same for an MP5.

Suppressors are still OK as well as SBR’s and shotguns but no machine guns that are newly manufactured or parts that will convert a weapon to fire either select-fire or full auto.

[Keith B]

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this, but it is my understanding that no one who is not law enforcement or a military unit can buy newly manufactured select-fire or full auto weapons. The gun bill that Clinton passed stopped that. The only weapons that a citizen can buy are those that were manufactured B4 the ban went into place. That is why some CAR’s go for $10,000 and the same for an MP5.

Suppressors are still OK as well as SBR’s and shotguns but no machine guns that are newly manufactured or parts that will convert a weapon to fire either select-fire or full auto.

The 1994 AWB expired in 2004 and you could once again buy them. You still require the appropriate paperwork, tax stamp or trust for full auto or SBR, etc., but you can buy many semi-autos (SKS, AR, etc.) that were banned by the AWB and they are now being shipped in from Yugoslavia and other former eastern block countries.

[seamusTX]

Y'all are talking about automatic weapons (machine guns), not semi-auto rifles that were subject to the expired "assault weapons ban."

Private citizens are prohibited from buying newly manufactured automatic weapons by the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986, which Pres. Reagan signed into law.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Keith B]

Y'all are talking about automatic weapons (machine guns), not semi-auto rifles that were subject to the expired "assault weapons ban."

Private citizens are prohibited from buying newly manufactured automatic weapons by the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986, which Pres. Reagan signed into law.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

Oops, my bad. I thought when the AWB lifted they could once again buy them with proper paperwork.

Guess you can tell I don't own any.

[Mike1951]

May 19, 1986 is the cutoff date. Machineguns registered by that date can still be owned by individuals.

Those in existance on that date but not registered are forever contraband.

Machineguns imported or manufactured after that date can only be purchased by government agencies or held as dealer samples by Class 3 dealers.

[gigag04]

OK. I'm tracking on that - so if I form a trust I can get Cans and SBRs. For select fire I either need to shell out $10K and get a registered lower, or become a class III FFL dealer and have enough business to demonstrate its legitimacy.

OORRRR...I can make swat and have one issued to me.


Sigh...both sound great but both require massive amounts of work.

[Big Tuna]

May 19, 1986 is the cutoff date. Machineguns registered by that date can still be owned by individuals.

Those in existance on that date but not registered are forever contraband.

Machineguns imported or manufactured after that date can only be purchased by government agencies or held as dealer samples by Class 3 dealers.

Some are more equal than others. Like in Animal Farm.

[ELB]

Here is a website and blog by a lawyer who specializes in NFA, and has set up a network or referral list of lawyers that specialize in NFA trusts. He is quite adamant that standard trusts used for other purposes are inadequate for owning NFA devices. Maybe he is just drumming up business, but it can't hurt to go see what he has to say.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ScottDLS]

OK. I'm tracking on that - so if I form a trust I can get Cans and SBRs. For select fire I either need to shell out $10K and get a registered lower, or become a class III FFL dealer and have enough business to demonstrate its legitimacy.

OORRRR...I can make swat and have one issued to me.


Sigh...both sound great but both require massive amounts of work.

Don't talk yourself out of getting a full auto if you really want one. You are limited to pre-86 (without becoming a FFL dealer w/ special occupational tax "class 3" license), but there are a lot of registered pre-86 out there. They are pricey. From about $3500 for the MAC machine pistols to $50,000 for some rare belt feds.

I got a nice Ruger AC556, basically a cut down Mini-14 (5.56mm/.223 cal) w/ semi, 3rd burst, and full auto for about $5K. Got lots of 20rd mags and even a .22lr conversion kit to shoot at the indoor range. That was about 7 years ago, but it would be maybe $7.5K today. If your CLEO will sign, I recommend registering in your own name. Since NFA registration is a "defense to prosecution" under Texas PC 46.05 "Prohibited Weapons", it's nice to have an ATF Form 4, with your picture and your local sheriff's signature on it along with the pretty $200 tax stamp. I don't want to be fumbling with a copy of my trust paperwork while some State Trooper is glaring at me.

This gun trust thing is over-rated. I don't go around loaning out my NFA guns, even to my family. They can shoot them when I'm there. If you really wanted flexibility, you'd be better off to form a small corporation. There's much longer precedent for them owning firearms and while more paperwork, also more flexibility in naming officers, shareholders, etc.

Go for it, buy a MAC or an Uzi or whatever. Fun as heck to shoot.