185 grn rn hollow base

[powerboatr]

Got some new 45 cal lower weight bullets, the 230 grain were just wasting at the range
so I went with 185 grn rn hollow base from berrys
all bullets are fmj
my question is the powder load
i started out at 7 grn of accurates #7, built up 5
i fired 5 and all fired great except not enough recoil to fully retract the slide so i am bumping up to 8 grns.

does the hollow base increase/decrease case pressures, since its adding displacement to the built up cartridge by having the hollow base.
and is it possible to have to go over what i was loading for the 230 grn flat base bullet? which was 8 grns

[CDH]

A 185 RN FB and a 185 RN HB are interchangeable. The hollow base is for accuracy (moves the center of gravity forward and makes it slightly longer overall) and maybe a bit of extra bearing surface for the brass to grip...but the difference in pressure is negligible.

is it possible to have to go over what i was loading for the 230 grn flat base bullet? which was 8 grns

Now you have asked a question that alarms me. You MUST understand this:

When you change bullet weights you MUST use a different line of the load table!!! You MUST adjust your powder charge according to the proper bullet weight!

Now, going to a lighter bullet is not usually a problem (unless you go too low and stick a bullet in the barrel) , but moving to a heavier bullet and using the same powder charge can (probably will) lead to overpressure loads.

I'm not trying to belittle you, but if I read your question correctly, you have missed this very important point and you need to spend more time reading your loading manual. The first rule is BE SAFE!!! Use the data from the manual correctly, meaning matching the load data to your bullet and powder. No substitutions on these 2 items. Never, never, never.

[philbo]

Generally, heavier bullets produce more pressure than lighter bullets, hence the lower powder charge for heavier bullets as a general rule. The hollow base probably also decreases pressure versus a solid base, but how much and if it is significant would be a guess. I've have loaded and shot literally thousands of the Berry's 185 RNHB bullets you're talking about and really like it for building a plinking\practice round. Although I generally use Titegroup for my loads, I found that indeed I have to increase the amount of powder with the 185 (4.8 grains of TG) versus the 230 grain bullets (4.4 grains of TG). I haven't used #7, but if you were getting a reliable load using that and a 230 grain FMJ, then that should be your start point in developing a load using the 185 plated bullet. As always, make small lots (5 rounds is good) and increase in small increments (.2 grain increases as opposed to 1 grain increase, please notice the decimal point) and check the powder manufacturers data for guidance. Good luck and be safe.

[powerboatr]

Generally, heavier bullets produce more pressure than lighter bullets, hence the lower powder charge for heavier bullets as a general rule. The hollow base probably also decreases pressure versus a solid base, but how much and if it is significant would be a guess. I've have loaded and shot literally thousands of the Berry's 185 RNHB bullets you're talking about and really like it for building a plinking\practice round. Although I generally use Titegroup for my loads, I found that indeed I have to increase the amount of powder with the 185 (4.8 grains of TG) versus the 230 grain bullets (4.4 grains of TG). I haven't used #7, but if you were getting a reliable load using that and a 230 grain FMJ, then that should be your start point in developing a load using the 185 plated bullet. As always, make small lots (5 rounds is good) and increase in small increments (.2 grain increases as opposed to 1 grain increase, please notice the decimal point) and check the powder manufacturers data for guidance. Good luck and be safe.

thank you both
i was using 8 for the 230 rn fmj
and started the 185s at 7.0 as per the load data from accurate and the lyman book
but the larger combustion chamber had me thinking about pressures and longer burn times versus the flat base,
i will fire the 5 i have built up and go dig em out of the sand to check for bulging
thanks guys

[philbo]

... i will fire the 5 i have built up and go dig em out of the sand to check for bulging

If you are talking about digging the bullets out of the sand, this will tell you nothing about pressure. Inspection of the brass and primer MIGHT indicate an over pressure occurrence, but is not very reliable. Better to follow the load data and remember that plated bullets should not be treated as jacketed bullets as the copper layer is significantly thinner. Lead data or mid range jacketed data is the rule of thumb when loading plated bullets. Start low and work up slowly.

Ps. A longer OAL will likely have more impact on reducing pressure than the hollow base of the bullet. My OAL is 1.255 with these bullets. Feed like butter through every 45 I have owned.

[powerboatr]

... i will fire the 5 i have built up and go dig em out of the sand to check for bulging

If you are talking about digging the bullets out of the sand, this will tell you nothing about pressure. Inspection of the brass and primer MIGHT indicate an over pressure occurrence, but is not very reliable. Better to follow the load data and remember that plated bullets should not be treated as jacketed bullets as the copper layer is significantly thinner. Lead data or mid range jacketed data is the rule of thumb when loading plated bullets. Start low and work up slowly.

Ps. A longer OAL will likely have more impact on reducing pressure than the hollow base of the bullet. My OAL is 1.255 with these bullets. Feed like butter through every 45 I have owned.

My OAL is 1.270 with the previous 230's fmj
the 5 i built up are 1.269
My biggest confusion/concern is the charts seem to start at 2-3 grans higher for starting loads for this bullet vice the 230's it seemed weird,
my five that were test fired at 7 grns on sat, actually looked excellent, clean inside except the last 1/8 was a bit dark and smoked, but not scorched, just powder smudgy.
if the rain stops long enough i will go test these five.
thanks

[philbo]

The soot you're seeing on your brass is typical when the pressure isn't high enough to expand the brass and seal chamber. Powder escapes and soots the side of the case, fast burning powders like Titegroup are famous for this.

As you indicated above, the loading manual shows a start weight higher for the 185 than the 230, and this is typical. Dropping below the start weight reduces pressures and increases the chance of a bullet lacking sufficient velocity to escape the barrel. Bump your load up as per the manual.

[MoJo]

powerboatr, PM sent.

[powerboatr]

its been a while but i finally had a dry day to go fire 10 loads
5 at 8 grns and 5 and 7.5
still having soot issues and a small amount of unburnt powder in the chamber after each round.
8.0 grn would not cycle the slide back far enough to completely eject the spent case.

soooo tonight i will run five at 8.2 and 5 at 8.4 grns
if this does not fix it i will switch to a different powder like #5 .
this is a 1960's era 1911 with factory springs.

[ghostrider]

your data looks on the light side if I'm reading it correctly. I don't use AA powders, but I went to their web site:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For 45ACP jacket bullets for AA #7 I see this data:

185gr 11.7 to 13.0gr

200gr: 10.8 to 12.0gr

Looking in my loading manuals, I generally only see AA #5 loads, suggesting AA #7 may not be optimal for .45acp.

[powerboatr]

your data looks on the light side if I'm reading it correctly. I don't use AA powders, but I went to their web site:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For 45ACP jacket bullets for AA #7 I see this data:

185gr 11.7 to 13.0gr

200gr: 10.8 to 12.0gr

Looking in my loading manuals, I generally only see AA #5 loads, suggesting AA #7 may not be optimal for .45acp.

we had a great day on thursday at the range, over 300 rounds of various calibers, sure felt good

the 8.5 loads worked very well,
i am almost out of #7 and plan to switch to 5

[MASTERCYLINDER4]

I started using Berrys 185 RNHBDS a couple years ago in my .45 ACP, XD. I have found them to be outstanding as long as you get enough powder behind them so the slide operates. I shoot 200-250 rounds every week, and for punching holes in the air/paper they are easy to shoot. I load Unique powder. Anything under 5.1 grains and they stovepipe. 5.3 -5.5 works excellent as well. You can't push these over about 850 fps or accuracy goes out the window....literally.

There is no loading data for them anywhere and Berry's won't recommend anything. (If anyone does know of any, please let me know at jimnjoan33@msn.com OK? )

They just say use any .452, lead bullet loading table, but that leaves out OAL which is also pretty important. So I load these at 1.245 to 1.255 OAL. No jams. Tite groups, no unburned powder so I know I'm in the sweet spot there.

Off topic but: I just loaded a bunch of their 200 gr RNHP today with 5.4 gr of Unique and a Large Pistol Magnum primer. The XD handles +p just fine (I checked with Springfield on this one first), with a SAMI rating of 21,000 CUP. Comments on the web are mixed. Some say" no big deal", others say "no way". If anyone has any experience with this, let me know too.