Question: .40 = .45?

[mctowalot]

I would like to "hear" my fellow forum member's thoughts and opinions regarding the "stopping power" of .40 s&w compared to .45acp.
I'm curious because in the last year or so there have been several shootings in the news in which a person has been hit center mass but not incapacitated by a .40 round, but I've never heard of anyone walking around after the same hit with a .45.
I understand type of ammo and shot placement etc. have a lot to do with it, but I'd like to hear from "ya'll".
Does .40 = .45acp?

If this has already been hashed out please post a link.
Thanks!

[The Annoyed Man]

Here we go again...

My personal preference is for .45 ACP, because there is no arguing that it is effective, it has a track record proving that effectiveness, and it is what I know and am familiar with. In fact, I am about to sell a .40 cal pistol.

That said, there is a growing body of data to support the notion that the .40 S&W is also an effective round, and it has the advantage of being generally carried in higher capacity than most (but not all) .45s offer. And some of the .40 S&W offerings actually have higher energy numbers on paper than most .45 offerings.

However, the drawback for me is that the .40 takes some getting used to when shooting. Since bullet velocity is higher than a .45, the slide movement is snappy. And since the bullet weight is significantly more than a 9mm, that snappy slide movement is accompanied by a stronger felt recoil impulse. Comparatively, the .45 ACP is a big pussycat which, to me anyway, is much easier to shoot well; and it still packs impressive punch.

So make mine a .45.

[TDDude]

For me it was simple
1000 rounds of 9mm around $235.00
1000 rounds of 40cal around $340.00
1000 rounds of 45 cal around $425.00

(just pulled these numbers off a site I sometimes use)

I'm on a pretty tight shooting budget and if I can't afford to shoot, then it won't matter what round I'm carrying because I won't hit anything.

9mm is what I carry and I can make 4" patterns at 15 yards all day long.

Nope, it's not the most powerful man-stopper out there but I've shot so much that I don't have to think about what I'm doing to hit the mark.

Carry what you practice with.

[USA1]

As much as I prefer a .45 , The Springfield XD subcompact only goes to .40
I figure .40 is plenty powerful enough to do the job.

[bayouhazard]

Paging Dr. Fackler url

[gigag04]

We've had officer involved shootings at the the dept where 9mm and .40 were ineffective, even with COM shots. We've never seen an issue with a .45. We switch this month to the .45 and I'm stoked.

Not sure if that helps any, but that is where our training dept has weighed in on the issue.

[MojoTexas]

Anything .380 or greater will get the job done if you're accurate in your shot placement. Some calibers do better than others, but as a previous poster suggested, there are advantages to the smaller rounds, such as increased magazine capacity and cost. I have a Springfield XDm in .40 S&W, and it's fun to shoot, and I have no doubt it could get the job done "stopping the threat" if I needed to defend myself or my family. I also have a couple of .45s that also could get the job done. The benefit of the .40 XDm is that it has a 16+1 capacity...and to match that with my 1911 I need to carry an extra 8-round magazine.

I think people worry too much about the caliber of their daily carry. As CHL holders, we carry to defend ourselves and our families from deadly situations. Most of us will never have to use our weapons in self defense, and the unlucky few who do will probably find that preparation (training, accuracy, and alertness) will play a lot more into surviving the situation rather than not having a big enough gun.

I have a buddy who recently bought his first pistol, and is considering getting his CHL. He talked with me and another CHL-holding friend and we both suggested he get a 9mm. The recoil is fairly light for a beginner, and the ammunition is relatively inexpensive which means it's cheaper to go to the range more often. He wound up buying one of the new compact Springfield XDm's with the 3.8" barrel after shooting my .40 XDm, my other buddy's 1911 TRP, and my other buddy's wife's 9mm XD. He loves it, and has been going to the range regularly.

The only thing to be wary of with the smaller-bullet/higher-velocity rounds such as 9mm and .40 S&W is increased penetration potential. I keep my .40 loaded with Mag-Safe frangible ammunition. If I have to use it in a self-defense situation, I don't want to worry about a missed shot going through several walls and striking an innocent bystander. With the .45 ACP, it's still a risk, but it's somewhat lessened by the slower velocity. YMMV :-)

MojoTexas

[mctowalot]

I better go ahead and apologise now, I knew it was a "loaded" question and my arms are already tired from beating that poor sleeping horse.
Allow me to refine my question:
Has anyone ever heard of a person getting shot with a .45acp round, near or in center mass, and said shot person not being incapacitated?

The "ambush" in the Seattle Starbucks is what got me wondering. According to the reports the BG was gutshot with a .40 on his way out, yet he was walking around 24 hours later.

As my family is currently relying on .40s for protection we are considering upgrading, hence the question.

[tacticool]

Being "gutshot" with a .45 probably wouldn't give much different results on the same target. Other than a CNS shut-off, most small arms "stops" are psychological or a result of blood loss.

[The Annoyed Man]

My dad shot a Japanese soldier in the stomach at fairly close range with his 1911A1 sidearm. It was night time, and the distance was probably not more than 10 yards. He said the man "sat down abruptly" (my dad's words) and moved no more. Whether the shot was instantly fatal from rupturing an aorta, or the man sat down because he was psychologically incapacitated, or he went down because the physical shock incapacitated him, or he went down to keep from getting shot some more is academic, because he did die. Under circumstances, nobody checked to see if he was killed instantly or died by by bleeding out slowly.

[CWOOD]

Hey, I'll jump in.

All handgun rounds will kill.

I will not stand in front of any of them waiting to be shot.

All handgun rounds are woefully underpowered which is why they have rifles.

Use your handgun to fight your way to your long gun.

All that being said, ALL service calibers, 9mm.38special and up will work if shot placement is good and you keep shooting until the agressor is lying on the floor and is no longer a threat.

Never count on one round from a handgun doing the trick, learn to double tap or even Mozambique and repeat as necessary until the above condition is reached.

I carry a .45ACP Glock 30. I like .45's. I shoot IDPA with it to stay proficient with it. There has been so much improvement in firearms/ammo technology in recent years, it would be hard to prove which is better. Unfortunately they do not permit standardized testing on humans to prove the point so we have to get along with physics which is not real world and after action reports which vary so much in individual circumstances that it is really impossible to create a provable and duplicatable evaluation.

Go for any of the service calibers and a good weapon and get good training and practice, practice practice at least monthly. All else is speculation.

[flb_78]

Im confident that Hornady Critical Defense FTX ammunition in 380 will be enough to neutralize a threat for me.

[Zoomie]

Never count on one round from a handgun doing the trick, learn to double tap or even Mozambique and repeat as necessary until the above condition is reached.

Or the 5 + 1 Drill. I'm guessing it would be pretty effective.

[Excaliber]

I better go ahead and apologise now, I knew it was a "loaded" question and my arms are already tired from beating that poor sleeping horse.
Allow me to refine my question:
Has anyone ever heard of a person getting shot with a .45acp round, near or in center mass, and said shot person not being incapacitated?

The "ambush" in the Seattle Starbucks is what got me wondering. According to the reports the BG was gutshot with a .40 on his way out, yet he was walking around 24 hours later.

As my family is currently relying on .40s for protection we are considering upgrading, hence the question.

Well, it wasn't EXACTLY centered, but I investigated a shooting where the male victim was shot point blank in the right nipple with a 200 gr. lead SWC round. He was hurting, but wasn't even bleeding. He could have gotten up and gone home if he'd wanted to.

At the ER, the doc turned him over and pinched a lump on his back. The slug, which was resting just under the skin, popped out through the stellate wound that hadn't quite broken through the surface skin. The doc had him watched for an hour or two, then sent him home with a prescription for antibiotics and a band aid. The lung hadn't collapsed and had self sealed, so no surgery was needed.

[PeteCamp]

Gentlemen. There is no good answer to this question. I am going to provide a link for your reading of a subject that took nine hits from an officer's Glock 21 using Gold Dots. You may draw your own conclusions.

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-arti ... ifice.html

My opinion? No handgun is powerful enough to guarantee a one shot stop irregardless of POI. Any handgun is capable of a one shot stop considering good POI.