Got a ticket for 52mph in a 55 zone!!

[neilp]

Yes you read it right. Apologies for what may be a long post.....

Back in November I was keeping pace with the traffic, heading east on what was RR620 and now also serves as the service road for the Texas 45 tollway. This is North Austin near Lakeline Mall. I got zapped by an APD bike cop and was ticketed for 52 mph in a 45mph zone. A few days later I went to the nearest Austin Municipal Court office and asked for deferred adjudication. I had to do this rather than just take defensive driving as I got a ticket almost exactly a year previously and the 1 year clock for taking defensive driving again starts from when you take the class not the date of the ticket. And of course I had procrastinated taking the class until the last minute.

About a week ago I noticed that there were 55mph speed limits signs along this stretch of road. As you might imagine I felt a little peeved that the limit changed right after I got a ticket that would not have been issued under this "new" limit. After some thought I figured that it was worth some research to see when the limit changed, maybe they were slow getting the signs up.

After getting nowhere with my online research efforts I made a few calls. The jurisdiction was in question as this is right where the Austin city limit line is, inside Williamson County and on a road maintained by TX DoT. So after getting to the bottom of the issue this is the situation. CoA passed an ordinance in 1990 setting the speed limit to 55 mph in that area. After the TX45 construction ended the construction speed limits signs were left up in error and enforced by APD.

So it turns out that I got ticketed for 52 in a 55 zone! I already paid the ticket ($140!!) in order to get the deferred adjudication. So I called the court and was told I have to go to the courthouse down town and see the "walk-in judge". So off I go .... Apparently the "walk-in" judge isn't so walk-in and I need to write-in to the walk-in judge (huh??). That piece of wonderful bureaucracy required a 30 minute wait in line.

That's where it stands as of now. I'm just about to write a letter and fax it to the court. Procrastinating again, I now have one week to take the defensive driving class that is required as part of the deferred adjudication so I may end up having to take the class anyway if I don't hear back from the court in the next couple of days. I don't want to end up with the ticket on my driving record as the effect on my car insurance rate would be nasty.

I guess I'm likely to end up about $200 out of pocket for a ticket that was not even valid. Kinda frustrating.

[WarHawk-AVG]

Taxation thru citation....expect it to be the norm if we the people DO NOT stop this insanity!

I got a citation in my city for parking in my yard, they had a pic of my bike in the yard, the new ordinance states there is a grace period of 4 hrs, problem is the dork never followed up and proved it was there for more than 4 hrs!

I am fighting this one tooth and nail

Read about it here
http://www.hotpursuit.cc/forum/showthread.php?t=16967" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
154 replies and almost 5k views

Any lawyers out there want to sue the City of Baytown in a class action pro bono??

P.S. 2 of their statutes violate the 4th amendment as well!

[KD5NRH]

I don't want to end up with the ticket on my driving record as the effect on my car insurance rate would be nasty.

Don't forget that the DD class is good for an insurance discount even if you get the ticket tossed.

They look at you funny if you go in for the class without a ticket, though.

[AEA]

I'm betting that you will take the rap for 52 in a 45 no matter that the signs were wrong at the time.

Reason why........
The Judge will agree with your research on what the actual speed limit was at the time (55) but he will also tell you that regardless you are required to follow all posted signs while driving. That means even though the sign was in error, it was in fact what you are supposed to follow.

[chabouk]

I'm not an expert on speeding (other than having only had two speeding tickets in 30 years, one of which was highly questionable), but I suggest you spend some reading time in the Texas Transportation Code, Section 545, Subchapter H, and see just what applies to your situation. A lot of what we assume, isn't necessarily so.

545.351. MAXIMUM SPEED REQUIREMENT.
545.353. AUTHORITY OF TEXAS TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION TO ALTER SPEED LIMITS.
545.3531. AUTHORITY OF TEXAS TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION TO ESTABLISH SPEED LIMITS ON TRANS-TEXAS CORRIDOR.
545.3535. AUTHORITY OF TEXAS TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION TO ALTER SPEED LIMITS ON CERTAIN ROADS.
545.354. AUTHORITY OF REGIONAL TOLLWAY AUTHORITIES TO ALTER SPEED LIMITS ON TURNPIKE PROJECTS.
545.355. AUTHORITY OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT TO ALTER SPEED LIMITS.
545.356. AUTHORITY OF MUNICIPALITY TO ALTER SPEED LIMITS.
545.359. CONFLICTING DESIGNATED SPEED LIMITS.
545.362. TEMPORARY SPEED LIMITS

[particle]

Sec. 545.359. CONFLICTING DESIGNATED SPEED LIMITS. An order of the Texas Transportation Commission declaring a speed limit on a part of a designated or marked route of the state highway system made under Section 545.353 or 545.362 supersedes any conflicting designated speed established under Sections 545.356 and 545.358.

To me, that says "This piece of paper that has all these signatures from the Texas Transportation Commission trumps your puny little speed limit sign!"

[Rex B]

Good information.
Let us know how it turns out, please

[shortysboy09]

I would print that and take with me!!!

[gigag04]

I would also check speeding - exceeding prima facie limit, which is what you were doing. You have some good things working in your favor but it might be too much sugar for a nickel. The officer was doing his job - can't hold him responsible. The construction crews made a mistake.

I can't speak a whole lot for others, but I don't write for under 10 usually. TBH I don't run much speed enforcement but it is a law and it is unsafe.

<off topic>

I got a citation in my city for parking in my yard, they had a pic of my bike in the yard, the new ordinance states there is a grace period of 4 hrs, problem is the dork never followed up and proved it was there for more than 4 hrs!

Was it there more than 4 hours? How do you know they did not follow up?
</off topic>

[gtrman66]

...speed enforcement but it is a law and it is unsafe.

It is a law, it is not however proven unsafe. Almost every time you hear about a traffic fatality due to "unsafe speeds" there is a PRIMARY considersation. Drinking, inexperience, weather, heavy traffic, distracted driver, cell phone, texting, eating.... A sober, experienced person can safely handle speeds in excess of 100mph without a problem. Our cars (and my poison, bikes) were designed to exceed the 100mph limit.

Giving a speeding ticket when there is not a primary cause for an unsafe condition is STRICTLY REVENUE GENERATION.

When the police ignore people who steal a purse out of a car at Home Depot and charge up $20k+ in identity theft charges but find time to write "speeding tickets" you cannot convince me otherwise. Police are overburdened and they should refocus on "real" issues.

Off my soapbox now.

[gigag04]

...speed enforcement but it is a law and it is unsafe.

It is a law, it is not however proven unsafe. Almost every time you hear about a traffic fatality due to "unsafe speeds" there is a PRIMARY considersation. Drinking, inexperience, weather, heavy traffic, distracted driver, cell phone, texting, eating.... A sober, experienced person can safely handle speeds in excess of 100mph without a problem. Our cars (and my poison, bikes) were designed to exceed the 100mph limit.

Giving a speeding ticket when there is not a primary cause for an unsafe condition is STRICTLY REVENUE GENERATION.

When the police ignore people who steal a purse out of a car at Home Depot and charge up $20k+ in identity theft charges but find time to write "speeding tickets" you cannot convince me otherwise. Police are overburdened and they should refocus on "real" issues.

Off my soapbox now.

Off topic. But, if you can do it, I guess I'll respond and let the mods figure it out. Maybe we can split into a diff topic. Higher speeds are correlated to higher fatality accidents. NHTSA and many other fine organizations have shown that higher speed limits on the SAME stretch of road will result in higher number of fatality accidents.

As far as revenue generation, the money get's so divided that it doesn't work out to be profitable. It costs the dept more to have me out there writing a ticket than it makes in ticket revenue...or...it's small percentage of ticket revenue.

Also - it is a law, and like it or not, you don't get to violate laws because you disagree with them. My job isn't to draft popular legislation....that's outside of my paygrade....Cops are there to enforce laws that someone voted into office by ultimately you (the public), created and passed.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what department is "overburdened" by theft of a purse. In my dept we run traffic when we don't have a call assigned to us. We have a dedicated Traffic Unit that does enforcement, as well as many other functions (crash investigation, escorts, education, scene reconstruction), and is not call responsive. They focus on areas where there are citizen complaints of unsafe speed, or a higher incidence of vehicle collisions.



And, at the end of they, you cannot maneuver evasively or stop at 80 mph as you could at 60 mph, even if you really really want to. After enduring multiple emergency vehicle operation driving schools, I can testify to this.


Back on topic, I think the OP has a good argument to possibly have the ticket dismissed but I think it will unfortunately require lot's of time and effort.

[mctowalot]

A few years ago here in Houston, HPD "ran radar" on the service (aka feeder) roads of the Southwest Frwy. There were signs up at the time stating a 35mph speed limit. They wrote many, many tickets. Then - according to local news reports - someone realized the 35mph signs were in error, and they should have read 45mph. Something about Hwy. 59 being a "state hwy." as opposed to I don't know what.
To the best of my recollection all of 59's "feeder" are supposed to have a 45mph limit.
I remember that the folks that had not yet paid their tickets didn't have to (pay), but I don't think anyone who had paid got a refund.
Hope this helps or jars somebody's memory and they can tell you about it in better detail.

P.S. IMHO it's not the going fast that kills, it the not being able to stop part. While one might have incredible high-speed driving skills, he/she is still sharing the road with those who don't.
Good luck, speedy! (just kidding)

[Rex B]

The higher your speed, the narrower your options if something goes wrong, and the bigger the penalty when it does.
That said, there is a max safe speed for a given road where efficiency balances risk, and most drivers will be comfortable at that speed. When a limit is posted that is obviously under that speed, it's a problem - and a speed trap.

[Smily]

by gigag04: " Higher speeds are correlated to higher fatality accidents. NHTSA and many other fine organizations have shown that higher speed limits on the SAME stretch of road will result in higher number of fatality accidents."

http://www.hwysafety.com/hwy_montana_2001.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FATAL ACCIDENTS DOUBLE ON MONTANA’S INTERSTATES. Not so fast says a follow up study just completed by National Motorists Association. The study shows the safest period on Montana’s Interstate highways was when there were no daytime speed limits or enforceable speed laws.

The doubling of fatal accidents occurred after Montana implemented its new safety program; complete with federal funding, artificially low speed limits and full enforcement.

[gigag04]

Wow...is there really debate here?