Traffic altercation leads to shooting death

[zbordas]

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Traffic altercation leads to shooting death
April 19, 2010 9:40 amRichard Zagrzecki wrote:
A Missouri City man was jailed Sunday, accused of shooting and killing another man during a traffic altercation.

Missouri City police Capt. John Bailey said Roberto Jaimungal, 31, of Missouri City, died of an apparent gunshot wound to the neck as he lay in the street.

Vancent Nguyen, 28, is being charged with murder in his death, Bailey said.

Bailey said that at 1:53 a.m., officers responded to a shooting call in the 4100 block of Starboard Shores in the Brightwater subdivision.

Around that time, the police department received another phone call from Nguyen, who had dialed 911 and said he had just shot a man who had come up to his vehicle and started punching him, Bailey said.

The “shooter” was advised to stop his vehicle so officers could locate him and the “shooter” complied.

Officers found Nguyen in the 4100 block of Eastshore Drive where he was detained. Other officers found Jaimungal lying in the street in the 4100 block of Starboard Shores bleeding profusely. He died at the scene.

Bailey said a preliminary investigation showed that the two men became involved in some type of traffic incident moments earlier and the end result of the altercation was the shooting.

I guess he whishes if he just drove away now... Probably another example that pulling your weapon is really the last option.

[sjfcontrol]

Hmm, didn't say if he had a CHL (thought you don't need one to carry in your car). The fact that he called 911 sounds like a point in his favor -- though leaving the scene is not. He followed the directions of the 911 operator and stopped. This sounds like it may have been justified. We need the rest of the story (as one comment mentioned).

[zbordas]

I agree! It may have been justified.

However:

1. The attacker did not have a deadly weapon (club, knife, firearm, baseball bat etc.) or at least not reported.
2. The fact that he could drive away after the shooting may indicate that he might have been able to drive away before the shooting.

My best guess is that he will have a real hard time to prove that his life was in imminent danger (while I personally think noone should walk up to another's car and start punching him... ).

[A-R]

I agree! It may have been justified.

However:

1. The attacker did not have a deadly weapon (club, knife, firearm, baseball bat etc.) or at least not reported.
2. The fact that he could drive away after the shooting may indicate that he might have been able to drive away before the shooting.

My best guess is that he will have a real hard time to prove that his life was in imminent danger (while I personally think noone should walk up to another's car and start punching him... ).

1. We don't know what weapon (if any) the attacker had, used, or showed/threatened with. AND if someone is pummeling you with their fists and you cannot get away (not saying this was or was not the case here) that is a violent attack on you that could easily turn fatal. Plenty of people are killed or seriously injured each year with merely a fist, especially if the fist-throwing attacker is larger, younger, more athletic, or more highly trained (boxing, martial arts etc) than the victim.

2. I agree the "best practice", IF POSSIBLE, is to de-escalate or leave a confrontation. But we don't know if that was a possibility. As usual with the first story on an incident: not enough information. Also, because of Castle Doctrine, it's no longer mandatory that you retreat (though I still believe it is the option if available).

Not saying this was or was not a "good shoot" but we don't have enough info yet to start making judgments.

[OldCannon]

IIRC, the first killing of a person by a CHL holder in Texas was during a traffic altercation in the Houston area (long ago, so I could be wrong about the "first" part or the "Houston" part). One driver got enraged and went to the other drivers car (the CHL holder) who was still sitting in it (seat belt fastened). The guy started beating the driver in the face repeatedly. The CHL holder draws and shoots through the door, striking the perp in the stomach. Perp dies. CHL holder got no-billed. However, the CHL holder did not leave the scene

Anyway....the dude better get a really good lawyer, because you never look innocent if you leave the scene (although he can claim that he wanted to get away from the threat, but then prosecution will ask why he shot the guy and THEN drove off).

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been having a lively exchange in the comments to the story with a guy who claims to have been a friend of the dead guy. It took exactly 5 minutes for the race card to get played.

[seamusTX]

1:53 a.m

The entire story has not been told here.

The first CHL holder in Texas to shoot someone in self defense was Gordon Hale. The incident occurred in Dallas.

Three things about Mr. Hale's case are worth repeating:

• The attacker was a huge guy. You can look up the vital statistics.
• Mr. Hale was blocked in heavy traffic.
• Before he shot, Mr. Hale had already been injured by a punch to the eye that obscured his vision. AFAIK, he never fully recovered.

- Jim

[puma guy]

I've been having a lively exchange in the comments to the story with a guy who claims to have been a friend of the dead guy. It took exactly 5 minutes for the race card to get played.

Sad on both accounts! Any death of a person justified or not. And Race entering the equation.

[OldCannon]

1:53 a.m

The entire story has not been told here.

The first CHL holder in Texas to shoot someone in self defense was Gordon Hale. The incident occurred in Dallas.

...
Three things about Mr. Hale's case are worth repeating:

Thanks for the clarification, Jim! I was just going from memory from something I read in '94/95 ish timeframe? Been a while ago, and I was too lazy to look it up again

[seamusTX]

You're welcome.

The incident occurred in February 1996. That was only a couple of months after the first CHLs were issued.

- Jim

[sammybaby]

As I am reading this I realise the difference between someone you know being shot, and someone you don't know or care about being shot. I knew the individual who was killed - and I really hope that the facts of the situation come out, bc he was a remarkable individual. His mother and brother are shattered and really trying to find out the truth in the situation, bc they know that the person that they love, their "Robbie" - would not attack someone without due cause. I hope that the person who shot him is truthful in his testimony, bc God have mercy on his soul if he isn't. It's a sad day in our history when we can take another human life and not consider - this is someone's son; this is someone's brother. Annoyed Man - thank you for your unbiased commentary. I keep saying this over and over, but I hope the truth comes out.

RIP Robbie...

[casingpoint]

I agree! It may have been justified.

Justified is tomorrow night, guys. Tonight is Jack Bauer and his amazing no recoil H&K forty caliber semiautomatic. Ol' Raylan may be quicker on the draw, but Jack kills more bad guys.

[The Annoyed Man]

As I am reading this I realise the difference between someone you know being shot, and someone you don't know or care about being shot. I knew the individual who was killed - and I really hope that the facts of the situation come out, bc he was a remarkable individual. His mother and brother are shattered and really trying to find out the truth in the situation, bc they know that the person that they love, their "Robbie" - would not attack someone without due cause. I hope that the person who shot him is truthful in his testimony, bc God have mercy on his soul if he isn't. It's a sad day in our history when we can take another human life and not consider - this is someone's son; this is someone's brother. Annoyed Man - thank you for your unbiased commentary. I keep saying this over and over, but I hope the truth comes out.

RIP Robbie...

For what it's worth Sammy, I do (or did) know someone who was shot dead, and I know at least one person who has shot another one dead in self defense. If the court does its job, the truth — whatever that turns out to be in this case — will come out. Thank you for the props.

[Outbreaker]

Moral of this story is the following.

1. Keep your doors locked.
2. Keep your Windows up.
3. Do not stop and engage the enraged person.

If he breaks your windows or doors to get to you. Then you have the right and evidence for a self defense shooting. I had a knife brandished at me when I did not pull forward enough for somones taste. If you have a CHL you need to have a thick enough skin to be aware of the situation.....and just drive on.

[karl]

Moral of this story is the following.

1. Keep your doors locked.
2. Keep your Windows up.
3. Do not stop and engage the enraged person.

If he breaks your windows or doors to get to you. Then you have the right and evidence for a self defense shooting. I had a knife brandished at me when I did not pull forward enough for somones taste. If you have a CHL you need to have a thick enough skin to be aware of the situation.....and just drive on.

Good steps to take, we as CHL holders truly do have to have another level of patience with non-trivial issues. If this was a traffic incident it is very likely the shooter shut off his engine and was preparing his documents for exchange. If this was the case immediate escape would not have been possible.