Galveston to ban guns?

[WayniacKT]

I have been hearing rumors that the City of Galveston is going to pass a law that would prohibit CCWs from all city owned properties, which include most of the beaches. Anyone hear more about this?

[G.A. Heath]

Nope, but if its true then it won't fly due to a concept called preemption.

[Purplehood]

I have been hearing rumors that the City of Galveston is going to pass a law that would prohibit CCWs from all city owned properties, which include most of the beaches. Anyone hear more about this?

It would never pass legal muster. The city cannot preempt state law. It is probably a rumor.

[WayniacKT]

I figured it was. I knew preemption would probably not allow for it.
thanks for the info.

[Oldgringo]

seamusTX would never allow such a travesty on his island.

[USA1]

seamusTX would never allow such a travesty on his island.

He sure wouldn't. He's probably down at City Hall right now investigating this rumored gun ban.

Ge gettem Jim.

[Pawpaw]

It goes well beyond preemption, even. The Texas Constitution allows only the Legislature to regulate "the wearing of arms".

Several years ago, San Antonio tried to do the same thing with long guns. As I recall, the city got slapped down pretty hard.

[seamusTX]

I have not heard of such a thing. It has not been on the City Council agenda.

The City of Galveston passed an ordinance in 1995 that banned possession of firearms, including by CHL holders, on all city property except streets and sidewalks. To the best of my knowledge, it has never been enforced. It became completely invalid with respect to CHL holders when the pre-emption and 30.06 clauses were passed in 1997.

I find the existence of that ordinance annoying, but I'm a believer in letting dead horses rest in peace.

Now, if someone takes a weapon to a park or the beach and starts shooting, they are in nine kinds of legal trouble. The city ordinance is going to be the least of their problems.

You can look up the ordinance starting here. It is Sec. 24-16. I have never been able to figure out how to provide a direct link to it.

If you heard this rumor from someone in a position of apparent authority, please send me a private message and let me know who.

- Jim

[varko]

The rumor you heard was probably about this:

On this the 18th day of August, 2010, the Commissioners' Court of Galveston County, Texas convened in a regularly scheduled meeting with the following members thereof present:

James D. Yarbrough, County Judge;

Patrick F. Doyle, Commissioner, Precinct No.1;

Bryan M. Lamb, Commissioner, Precinct No.2;

Stephen D. Holmes, Commissioner, Precinct No.3;

Kenneth Clark, Commissioner, Precinct No.4; and

Mary Ann Daigle, County Clerk



when the following proceedings, among others,

were had, to-wit:
An Order Banning the Carrying of Handguns Within the

Premises of Various County Owned and Leased Buildings,

Parks and other Facilities. Whereas, the following premises contain offices and Courtrooms utilized by the County's various Courts where each Court's duly elected Judges and Officials conduct business:

District Courts County Courts

10th Judicial District Court

56th Judicial District Court

122nd Judicial District Court

212th Judicial District Court

306 Judicial District Court

405th Judicial District Court

Galveston County Justice Administration Building

600 59th Street

Galveston, Texas 77551

County Court at Law #1

County Court at Law #2

County Court at Law #3

Probate and County Court

Galveston County Justice Administration Building

600 59th Street

Galveston, TX 77551

1. Justice of the Peace Courts

Precinct 1

Sam Popovich Annex

1922 Sealy

Galveston, TX 77550



Precinct 2

Sam Popovich Annex

1922 Sealy

Galveston, TX 77550



Precinct 3

Johnny Henderson Building

203 Vauthier

La Marque, TX 77568



Precinct 4

West County Building

Santa Fe, TX 77510



Precinct 5

Texas City Building

2516 Texas Avenue

Texas City, TX 77590



Commissioners' Court

Galveston County Courthouse

722 Moody

Galveston, TX 77550



Texas City Building

2516 Texas Avenue

Texas City, TX 77590; and



Jerry J. Esmond Juvenile Detention Center

6101 Attwater

Texas City, Texas 77539



2. Precinct 8-1

League City Annex

174 Calder Road

League City, Texas 77573



Precinct 7

4500 10th Avenue B

Bacliff, TX 77518



Precinct 8-2

607 South Friendswood Drive

Galveston, TX 77550



Precinct 6

Crystal Beach Building

1750 Hwy. 87 - Noble Carl Rd.

Crystal Beach, TX 77650



League City Annex

174 Calder Road

League City, TX 77573



West County Building

11730 Highway 6

Santa Fe, TX 77510; and ~..



Whereas, Judges, Court personnel, Commissioners' Court personnel, and individuals using the various District, County, and Justice of the Peace Courts have advised the Commissioners'

Court that the Judges and Court personnel, including Commissioners' Court personnel continually

utilize common areas of the buildings where jurors are sununoned, the hallways where witnesses

wait to be called to testify, the elevators and the stairways. In addition, Judges, Court personnel and prosecutors travel to and from the various Courts, the District and County Clerk's offices and the Law Library; and Whereas, likewise, each member of the Commissioners' Court utilizes the building that houses his office in a similar manner; and Whereas, the Court finds that by such activity, the offices utilized by the various Courts extend outside the confines of the courtrooms and Judges' chambers and include such hallways, elevators, stairs and common areas within the various buildings that house the Courts or their offices; and

Whereas it is the opinion of the Commissioners' Court that the carrying of handguns onto such premises by the public should be prohibited; and Whereas, it is the further opinion of the Commissioners' Court that a policy should also be

adopted that prohibits all county employees, other than licensed peace officers, from carrying handguns on the premises of all County owned and leased buildings, parks and other facilities.

Now, Therefore, Be it Ordered by the Commissioners' Court of Galveston County as Follows:

1) That the District, County, and Justice of the Peace Courts and Conunissioners' Courts

and offices utilized by the Courts shall include all areas within the buildings listed above that house

such Courts or their offices.

2) That each of the above Courts and the building which houses them is accorded the

protection given to a "govenunent COUltor offices utilized by the court" as authorized by V.T.C.A.,

Penal Code, ~46.03.

3) That this resolution shall not be construed so as to prevent the various Courts from utilizing additional offices located in any building not expressly mentioned above.

4) That all individuals who work in, utilize or visit these offices, Courtrooms or the buildings which house them are placed on notice that a person commits a violation of Texas Penal

Code §46.03 if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club or prohibited weapon listed in Texas Penal Code § 46.05(a), in any of the abovementioned Government Courts, offices utilized by the COutts, or building which house them.

5) That in order to maintain a safe, peaceful and orderly atmosphere in the abovementioned buildings which house the Courts of this County, and in the best interest of the County and its citizens, no person or county employee shall be allowed to carry a concealed handgun on the premises of the above mentioned Courts, regardless of whether that person is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, ofthe Texas Government Code.

6) That in addition to the state law ban of concealed handguns in the Courts and offices utilized by those courts, the Commissioners' Court hereby bans the carrying of concealed

handguns by its employees in all other County premises, parks and other facilities owned or leased by the County while such employees are on the premises during normal working hours or at such other times they are in the course of their employment. The definition of "premises" in this Order shall be as set out in Texas Penal Code § 46.035.

7) That all actions taken in this order are considered by the Court to be reasonably necessary and appropriate for the accomplishment of the legitimate objective of maintaining a safe,

peaceful, and orderly atmosphere on County premises.

8) That the following signs or notices shall be posted both in English and in 'Spanish in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public and in contrasting colors with block letters at least

one inch in height by the Facilities Manager at all above mentioned buildings which house government courts or offices utilized by those courts as specified above, to-wit:

Pursuant to Section 30.06 Texas Penal Code (trespass by holder oflicense to carry a concealed handgun), a person liceused under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Texas Government Code (concealed handgun law) may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.

9) That notice to the employees shall be posted by the Facilities Manager, the Road Administrator, the Adult Probation Department Director, the Juvenile Probation Department Director and the Parks Director at all other County owned or leased buildings, facilities and parks at either the entrance to the facility, the break room or such other connnon area in which such employees customarily gather or congregate for lunch, instructions or breaks.

10) That by passage of this Order, the COUli also gives notice to all individuals that in circumstances in which a violation of Texas Penal Code §§ 46.03 or §46.035 occurs, the Commissioners' Court will request the violator be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible.

11) That it is not a defense to such a violation that the actor possessed a handgun and was licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, of the Texas Government Code.

12) That this Order does not apply to:

a) "peace officers" as such term is defined in V.T.C.A., Penal Code §1.07 unless such peace officer(s) are a plaintiff, a defendant or otherwise actively participating or emotionally involved in an civil trial or criminal trial or proceeding (e.g. a

witness or a parent of a child or the sibling of a person involved in such a trial or proceeding);

b) any individual who has a valid defense as set out in Texas Penal Code §§ 46.03, 46.035, or Subchapter H, Chapter 411, of the Texas Government Code.

13) That if any provision, section, sentence, clause or phrase of this Order, or if the application of same to any person, or set of circumstances is for any reason held to be

unconstitutional, void, or invalid, the validity of the remaining portions of this Order or its application to other persons or sets of circumstances shall not be affected thereby, it being the intent

of the Commissioners' Court of Galveston County that no portion hereof or provision or regulation contained herein shall become inoperative or fail by reason or unconstitutionality.

-voidness or invalidity or any other portion hereof, and all provisions of this Order are declared to be severable
for that purpose.

14) That this Order take effect immediately and that all orders, parts of orders, or resolutions in conflict herewith are expressly repealed.

15) That copies of this Order by given to the Criminal District Attorney, the Sheriff, the Constables, the Facilities Manager, the Adult Probation Department Director, the Juvenile

Probation Department Director and the Director of Parks in order that they might implement enforce and prosecute in accordance with this Order.

Upon Motion Duly Made and Seconded, the above Order was unanimously passed on this is" day of August. 2010.

County of Galveston, Texas

By:

James D. Yarbrough

County Judge

Attest:

Mary Ann Daigle

County Clerk

See line item 24 on this link:

http://www.co.galveston.tx.us/Commissio ... agenda.pdf

[Purplehood]

Wow. I guess if you get the right lawyer, anything will look legal to you.

[seamusTX]

Thanks, Varko.

Where did this come from? It says

On this the 18th day of August, 2010, the Commissioners' Court of Galveston County, Texas convened in a regularly scheduled meeting with the following members thereof present:

Unless I have lost my mind, the 18th is tomorrow, and this meeting could not have occurred yet.

The link that you provided is to the agenda.

Galveston County has had perfectly fine-looking 30.06 signs on all the county buildings as long as I can remember. Most are redundant, since they are on courthouses or the jail.

There are a few on buildings that have nothing to do with courts or law enforcement, such as the Jack Johnson building in Carbide Park. If I had all the time in the world, I would question the district attorney about them. However, I prefer to stay off the radar.

- Jim

[WildBill]

Thanks, Varko.

Where did this come from? It says

On this the 18th day of August, 2010, the Commissioners' Court of Galveston County, Texas convened in a regularly scheduled meeting with the following members thereof present:

Unless I have lost my mind, the 18th is tomorrow, and this meeting could not have occurred yet.

The link that you provided is to the agenda.

Galveston County has had perfectly fine-looking 30.06 signs on all the county buildings as long as I can remember. Most are redundant, since they are on courthouses or the jail.

There are a few on buildings that have nothing to do with courts or law enforcement, such as the Jack Johnson building in Carbide Park. If I had all the time in the world, I would question the district attorney about them. However, I prefer to stay off the radar.

- Jim

I have seen this agenda previously.
http://www.co.galveston.tx.us/justice_c ... weapon.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dated September 4, 2003

[seamusTX]

This looks like someone took the 2003 meeting minutes and slipped a future date and the current commissioners into it.

Bottom line, courts and jails are off limits whether posted or not; and 30.06 signs on county-owned or leased buildings are otherwise unenforceable. Any limitation on licensed concealed carry on beaches or in parks is unenforceable.

And did I mention that concealed means concealed?

- Jim

[varko]

The link I posted is from the County of Galveston website http://www.co.galveston.tx.us/ (click ‘This Weeks Agenda’).

The text in the quote box was from an email my wife received that supposedly originated from someone from the County.

Ken Clark http://www.kenclark.org/ was on Sam Malone’s radio show this morning saying that they will be voting on this tomorrow. As has been pointed out already, I’m not sure how legal any of this is anyway.

[varko]

This looks like someone took the 2003 meeting minutes and slipped a future date and the current commissioners into it.

Bottom line, courts and jails are off limits whether posted or not; and 30.06 signs on county-owned or leased buildings are otherwise unenforceable. Any limitation on licensed concealed carry on beaches or in parks is unenforceable.

And did I mention that concealed means concealed?

- Jim

I originally posted only to show that there was something behind the rumor.

It is worth noting though, how local authorities seem to be in the dark when it comes to laws concerning concealed carry.