Dhimmitude

[gemini]

The following is intended to be a political post. Please, do not make it a discussion of religion.
Although, many times there seems to be no clear definitive line of division between religion and politics.
I believe Obamacare, and those who supported it's passage, are singling out a few segments of
society to benefit. Socialism run rampant or amuck? Remember to take out the trash this November.
I found the following read interesting:

Has anyone heard of this new word? Dhimmitude?

Amish and other religious groups may be exempt from forced
purchase of healthcare policies under Obama care. You know
what other groups this could include? Muslims and Christian
Scientists may be exempt from having to have government healthcare.

Word of the Day: Dhimmitude

I had my doubts so I checked with Snopes. There is an exemption for
"certain religious groups" in the Health Care Bill. Had never heard
the word until now---Type it into Google and start reading...pretty
interesting. Note that Muslims and certain other religions are exempt
from the Obamacare penalties and it is supported by law. We are
surrendering from within! The prez is leading us right down the path
to total Muslim control.

Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-muslim populations
conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-muslims
in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive means of
converting conquered remnants to islam.

The ObamaCare bill is the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia
muslim diktat in the United States. Muslims may be specifically exempted
from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the
penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling",
"risk-taking" and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims may be specifically
granted exemption based on this. How convenient. So I John Smith, as a
Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets,
including real estate, cattle, cars and etc. and even accounts receivables,
and will face hard prison time because I refuse to buy insurance or pay
the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such penalty
and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government
insurance at our expense. Non-muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize
muslims. Period. This is Dhimmitude.

Dhimmitude serves two purposes: it enriches the muslim masters AND
serves to drive conversions to islam. In this case, the incentive to convert
to islam will be taken up by those in the inner-cities as well as the godless
Generation X, Y and Z types who have no moral anchor or belief in God!
If you don't believe in Christ to begin with, it is no problem whatsoever
to sell Him for 30 pieces of silver. "Sure, I'll be a muslim if it means free
health insurance and no taxes. Where do I sign, brother?" Now all you
Obama voters get in line for your free stuff!...However, I suggest you don't
hold your breath!...


PS. Have you heard about the summit Obama is holding this month in DC
for the future Muslim business leaders in the US? He wants to increase
their ability to begin business opportunities in the US for the Muslim
community! Better start looking for a country that doesn't cater to the
Muslims ~ Australia doesn't, this country will be overrun by Muslims
like Europe is currently experiencing.


Click here: Dhimmitude - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmitude <http:///> >

<http://www.snopes.com/ <http:///> > Search Engine


1. snopes.com: Health Insurance Exemptions <http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp <http:///> > ...
Are various religious groups exempt from requirements to obtain health insurance?
...Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-muslim populations conquered through jihad. Specifically,
it is the TAXING of non-muslims in exchange...
...The ObamaCare bill is the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia muslim diktat in the United States .
Muslims are specifically exempted from the...
Fri, 14 May 2010 11:15:41 GMT http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <http:///>

[Ashlar]

You should have read the snopes article closely.

Whether Muslims would qualify for an exemption from the health insurance requirements is more difficult to define, as Islam is a much larger religion with practices that vary according to sect and region. Although Islam does have a tradition of barring conventional insurance products because they "involve an element of uncertainty, gambling and the charging of interest, which are prohibited by the Koran," some Muslim groups make exceptions for insurance which is required by law (such as automobile insurance, and some Muslim groups do not have objections to medical insurance. Most likely, though, Muslims would not qualify for an exemption from U.S. health insurance requirements because U.S. Muslims do not have a tradition of spurning Social Security (which is viewed more as a form of caring for those who are unable to meet their own needs than as something which involves elements of uncertainty, gambling, and interest payments), and no Muslim group has ever qualified for an exemption under the guidelines which define which religious groups would be exempt from the health care law.

You see, here in the US, we have the tradition of not forcing someone to do something that is strictly against their religion- such as forcing Quakers to serve in the military when the draft was active. We don't force Jehova's Witnesses to take the pledge of allegiance when they're in school, we don't force anyone to put their hand on a bible to take office. ("The Senators and Representatives … {and other state and federal officials} shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required …."**)

How you got from religious tolerance to some nebulous conspiracy theory eludes me.


** Here's a good read on that one- http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... ene-volokh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gemini]

and Dhimmitude is ?

[Beiruty]

and Dhimmitude is ?

USA is not an Islamic State, thus whatever is posted above is irrelevant. Whatever exception is entitled is due to Constitutional basis and not favoritism to certain group.

Muslims hate taxes like everyone else, and consider taxes as Islamically forbidden . However, all US hardworking Muslims, myself included do pay our taxes promptly.

[jester]

Whatever exception is entitled is due to Constitutional basis and not favoritism to certain group.

Unless they treat everyone the same under the law, regardless of religion or ethnicity, that is favoritism.

[Beiruty]

Whatever exception is entitled is due to Constitutional basis and not favoritism to certain group.

Unless they treat everyone the same under the law, regardless of religion or ethnicity, that is favoritism.

I agree. All should be equal in the eyes of laws.
What I meant is that Muslims are not something special, if others got exceptions, so Muslims might be entitled for same. That as a matter of equality and not because they are Muslims.

[Purplehood]

Whatever exception is entitled is due to Constitutional basis and not favoritism to certain group.

Unless they treat everyone the same under the law, regardless of religion or ethnicity, that is favoritism.

I agree. All should be equal in the eyes of laws.
What I meant is that Muslims are not something special, if others got exceptions, so Muslims might be entitled for same. That as a matter of equality and not because they are Muslims.

I personally like having Beiruty on our forum. It gives the rest of us a perspective of the issues that interest us all that we might never otherwise see.
In regards to the topic of this thread, I would like to hear a US Muslim give his/her thoughts on the the issue of being considered "Dhimmi" and how it might one day affect Americans.

[bigred90gt]

Just out of curiosity, how, exactly, is it favoring muslim groups, when the article quoted specifically states amish, muslim, christian, AND other religious groups? Personally, I feel if some have to pay, ALL should have to pay (though it would be better if NONE had to pay, but that is a different discussion all together). Whether you fall into a chrisitan group, amish group, muslim group, whatever flavor of the day group, if anyone else has to pay, you should too. To those of us who have no religious preference, we get stuck paying the tab.

Also, the generalization of "godless generation x-y-z" could not be further from the truth. I may not believe in the christian god, but I am not joining the muslim faith for any reason either. Those that I know that are not religious would also not become muslim.

[The Annoyed Man]

and Dhimmitude is ?

It is that part of Sharia Law in which, in an Islamic theocracy, people of other religions - specifically those called "people of the book," which generally means Christians and Jews and other monotheists - have a second class status under the law. The Dhimi are officially protected by the Islamic state and are more or less free to practice their religion, but not without "paying the tax." So, if you're a Christian or Jewish Dhimi, you pay the tax to the theocracy in exchange for protection. Here in the U.S., we call that a "protection racket," and we throw people in prison for it on extortion charges.

Also, in addition to "the tax," the Dhimi have diminished civil rights in other areas. They cannot marry a muslim. They cannot engage in certain kinds of contracts, etc., etc.

The problem with Dhimmitude - even if you can find people cowardly and irrational enough to be willing to submit to it - is that in actual practice, the Caliphate has never observed it in full, and the experience of the Dhimi is invariably the gradual erosion of whatever rights they are supposed to have, as the Caliphate's "tolerance" for non-muslims shrinks ever smaller.

Eventually, you always get the exact situation that has existed in Dharfur for the past 10-15 years. Individual muslims may be perfectly good at living lives of moderation and getting along with all of their neighbors. But the theocratic Caliphate has never been able to do so.

And before I get beat up on by the board's atheists because I wear my Christianity on my sleeve: 1) I do NOT desire to see a Christian "Caliphate." True Christianity assumes that the individual believer's relationship with God is his or her own responsibility, and that government has no place in religion. And 2) if a religion can be defined as a system of belief about the supernatural which cannot be empirically proven, then atheism is also a religion - one which I freely support the atheists' right to practice. By the way, under Dhimmitude, atheists don't even enjoy the same protections as Christians and Jews, because to deny the existence of a monotheistic God is a capital offense.... ...at least, it eventually became so under the Caliphate, just as it did when the Vatican ruled the Christian world.

That is why government has NO place in religion, and why the 1st Amendment specifically states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Dhimmitude is in direct contravention to the U.S. Constitution.

[Purplehood]

and Dhimmitude is ?

It is that part of Sharia Law in which, in an Islamic theocracy, people of other religions - specifically those called "people of the book," which generally means Christians and Jews and other monotheists - have a second class status under the law. The Dhimi are officially protected by the Islamic state and are more or less free to practice their religion, but not without "paying the tax." So, if you're a Christian or Jewish Dhimi, you pay the tax to the theocracy in exchange for protection. Here in the U.S., we call that a "protection racket," and we throw people in prison for it on extortion charges.

Also, in addition to "the tax," the Dhimi have diminished civil rights in other areas. They cannot marry a muslim. They cannot engage in certain kinds of contracts, etc., etc.

The problem with Dhimmitude - even if you can find people cowardly and irrational enough to be willing to submit to it - is that in actual practice, the Caliphate has never observed it in full, and the experience of the Dhimi is invariably the gradual erosion of whatever rights they are supposed to have, as the Caliphate's "tolerance" for non-muslims shrinks ever smaller.

Eventually, you always get the exact situation that has existed in Dharfur for the past 10-15 years. Individual muslims may be perfectly good at living lives of moderation and getting along with all of their neighbors. But the theocratic Caliphate has never been able to do so.

And before I get beat up on by the board's atheists because I wear my Christianity on my sleeve: 1) I do NOT desire to see a Christian "Caliphate." True Christianity assumes that the individual believer's relationship with God is his or her own responsibility, and that government has no place in religion. And 2) if a religion can be defined as a system of belief about the supernatural which cannot be empirically proven, then atheism is also a religion - one which I freely support the atheists' right to practice. By the way, under Dhimmitude, atheists don't even enjoy the same protections as Christians and Jews, because to deny the existence of a monotheistic God is a capital offense.... ...at least, it eventually became so under the Caliphate, just as it did when the Vatican ruled the Christian world.

That is why government has NO place in religion, and why the 1st Amendment specifically states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Dhimmitude is in direct contravention to the U.S. Constitution.

IMHO Dhimmitude (an inaccurate term I am sure) is what has caused the Islamic world to stagnate since their glory days of the greater Caliphates. What it essentially does is create a society where the Islamic members practice their religious lifestyle and rely on the productive value of those individuals that are considered Dhimmi to generate taxes.
You could compare it to a noble/serf relationship without the reciprocal protection that the noble was supposed to (and not always did) provide.

[Kythas]

From: http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html

e. Dhimmitude

Islam's persecution of non-Muslims is in no way limited to jihad, even though that is the basic relationship between the Muslim and non-Muslim world. After the jihad concludes in a given area with the conquest of infidel territory, the dhimma, or treaty of protection, may be granted to the conquered "People of the Book" -- historically, Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians. The dhimma provides that the life and property of the infidel are exempted from jihad for as long as the Muslim rulers permit, which has generally meant for as long as the subject non-Muslims -- the dhimmi -- prove economically useful to the Islamic state. The Quran spells out the payment of the jizya (poll- or head-tax; Sura 9:29), which is the most conspicuous means by which the Muslim overlords exploit the dhimmi. But the jizya is not merely economic in its function; it exists also to humiliate the dhimmi and impress on him the superiority of Islam. Al-Maghili, a fifteenth century Muslim theologian, explains:

On the day of payment {of the jizya} they {the dhimmi} shall be assembled in a public place like the suq {place of commerce}. They should be standing there waiting in the lowest and dirtiest place. The acting officials representing the Law shall be placed above them and shall adopt a threatening attitude so that it seems to them, as well as to others, that our object is to degrade them by pretending to take their possessions. They will realize that we are doing them a favor in accepting from them the jizya and letting them go free. (Al-Maghili, quoted in Bat Ye'or, The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam, 361.)

Islamic law codifies various other restrictions on the dhimmi, all of which derive from the Quran and the Sunnah. Several hundred years of Islamic thought on the right treatment of dhimmi peoples is summed up by Al-Damanhuri, a seventeenth century head of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the most prestigious center for learning in the Muslim world:

... just as the dhimmis are prohibited from building churches, other things also are prohibited to them. They must not assist an unbeliever against a Muslim ... raise the cross in an Islamic assemblage ... display banners on their own holidays; bear arms ... or keep them in their homes. Should they do anything of the sort, they must be punished, and the arms seized. ... The Companions [of the Prophet] agreed upon these points in order to demonstrate the abasement of the infidel and to protect the weak believer's faith. For if he sees them humbled, he will not be inclined toward their belief, which is not true if he sees them in power, pride, or luxury garb, as all this urges him to esteem them and incline toward them, in view of his own distress and poverty. Yet esteem for the unbeliever is unbelief. (Al-Damanhuri, quoted in Bat Ye'or, The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam, 382.)

[wheelgun1958]

Whatever exception is entitled is due to Constitutional basis and not favoritism to certain group.

Unless they treat everyone the same under the law, regardless of religion or ethnicity, that is favoritism.

There is NO constitutional basis for Obamacare.