I ran across this incident on the Indiana Gun Owners forum awhile back while looking for something else. Several elements here that we talk about a lot on this forum: OC versus concealed, cops apparently unfriendly to citizen carry, lack of knowledge of the law by the police, complaints to the police chief, finding a gun-savvy lawyer, pros and cons of intervening in someone else's problem (given the relationship, I do not fault him for this, but it might have been better to call the cops to escort the daughter-in-law.) The joy of the criminal court system.
Some might find it of interest. It is not resolved yet.
There are 20 pages of posts on this, mostly people chiming in with "I can't believe this is happening to you." The following are the highlights according to my understanding of posts by "Bill".
On 19 May 2010
- Bill's son and daughter law are "amicably" separated, DIL living with cousin
- Cousin kicks out DIL and won't let her back in to get her personal property. DIL shows up a Bill's house for help
- Bill & wife and DIL go to cousin's at 2350. Guy & Wife both have handgun licenses, both carry. Bill has his in SOB/IWB, does not usually conceal it unless wearing jacket. Wife has on hip, usually concealed by jacket.
- Cousin opens door for DIL. Bill walks in behind. Cousin tell him to get out and he does. Bill hears cousin tell someone to "call police."
- Bill goes out to car, tells Wife, they get licenses ready (lifetime licenses, apparently),
- Cops (2 cars) show up and asks "who has gun?" Bill states he and Wife have licenses, id location of guns on request, and where from (neighboring city or town)
- Per Bill , lead cop chews him out for having a gun, “I know all about Hammond and I don’t appreciate you people coming in here acting like John Dillenger (sic)," threatens to confiscate license(s?) on the spot, have it revoked, and other obnoxiousness. Cop says he will make a report and Guy will "hear from the ISP" (Indiana State Police). Apparently cop never asks why the Bill and Wife are there, nor disarms them.
- Bill and Wife are let go with licenses and guns intact
- Next few days Bill calls Chief of Police to complain, calls not taken or returned.
- Bill writes letter of complaint, sends to "commissioner."
- 29 May 2010 (I think), at 0900 Sat morn guy finds cops at his door to arrest him on a warrant issued the day before. Held until 1800, freed on $1000 bond. Arrest apparently for "intimidation" and "xxxx entry", maybe more. Bill is a little excited and doesn't get everything.
- Bill hires lawyer, lawyer says police report reads almost same as letter of complaint, can make it go away without affecting license. For $5K.
- Pled not guilty at 28 Jun 2010 court appearance, another court date set 9 Aug (appears he was charged with "residential entry," which requires "breaking and entering," and "intimidation.")
- Bill also says "tort notice" filed with city for civil suit, which I interpret as he is suing the city over this. Bill also looking for "good 2A or civil rights" attorney.
- Bill's attorney takes depositions from officer, detective, and complainant. Attorney says went "extraordinarily well," prosecutor admitted at least one charge was weak.
- Bill says depositions show officer on scene and detective assigned to case agree that Bill committed no illegal acts. Also, detective was unaware that the crime of "residential entry" requires "breaking" (in Texas terms, force) as an element of the crime, and but did agree that Bill used no force, and that it was reasonable for him to assume he could enter the house. Also agrees that he was legally armed, and the alleged victim and detective agree never touched his firearm. However, detective thinks he should have backed out of the house so the homeowner could not see his legally carried handgun. Bill promises to post the depositions at some point.
- Motion to dismiss charges to be heard on 20 Sep 2010
- Bill shows up 20 Sep, DA asks for another continuance and gets postponement until 7 Oct 10
- Outcome TBD (and Bill is under "no contact" order, which among other things means he cannot legally carry a gun, but license is not suspended or revoked).
Direct link to letter of Complaint:
http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_iss ... ost1052687" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Other direct links of interest...
http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_iss ... ost1074875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_iss ... ost1219928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_iss ... ost1316274" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (report on 20 Sep court appearance)
http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_iss ... ost1316315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Bill B's comment on retaining a lawyer & costs)
Updated 4 Oct 10:
Bill's latest comment (recalling that he was scheduled for trial on 7 Oct, this coming Thursday): "It seems the prosecutor has finally goteen {sic} around to reading the depositions and has filed to drop the case. So unless the judge does something weird on Thursday, the criminal part will be over.
The civil fun is just beginning.
"Update as of 8 Oct 10: All charges dismissed, "no contact" order removed (thus able to legally carry again). Civil suit promised.
Update as of 7 Dec 10: Bill reports his lawyer told him the insurance company for the city of St John wants to settle.
Update as of 4 Apr 11: Apparently some settlement was reached in Nov 2010. Somewhere between then and 10 March 201, Bill received a letter notifying him that the Superintendent of the Indiana State Police had suspended Bill's lifetime license to carry a handgun (LTCH) for "reasonable grounds" to believe he was not "Proper Person" to have a license, specifically mentioning "evidence which would give rise to a reasonabe belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct." He was "directed to IMMEDIATELY" mail or deliver the license to the ISP in Indianapolis, and to appear at a hearing on 10 March 2011; apparently he was guilty until proven innocent, since he was warned failure to appear would waive his rights to "further review" and the proceedings "may be dismissed." It became known that the only reasons for the suspension were the arrest and police charges, even tho the DA filed for dismissal and removing the protective order, which was granted.
ISP letter here: http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_iss ... ost1727963" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bill commented that he and his lawyer agreed that if they had known this was in the works, they would not have settled.
Bill and his lawyer went to the hearing on 10 March, which was before some kind of judge. The prosecution presented as evidence the arrest, charges, and disposition of the case. Bill's attorney objected to this as hearsay evidence, but it turns out in license review proceedings hearsay evidence is allowed as long as it is not the only thing used to make a determinaton.
The sole prosecution witness was the woman who had called the police, who basically testified that Bill had not entered her house without permission, was not upset, made no aggressive actions or statements, did exactly what she asked him to do, and the only reason she called the police was she saw the "black" handgun, which was IWB in the small of his back (she saw it when he was leaving). The actual gun had a silver slide and OD green frame.
Note: there is some indication that the amount of time Bill carried a handgun might have been important -- the prosecution questioned him on this. The fact that he basically carried all the time except where it was illegal seemed to work for him. The implication seems to be that if he only carried occasionally, and that night he was arrested was one of them, it might have been argued that he did so to make trouble, intimidate, planned to be violent, etc. Something to ponder.
The judge stated she would take the case under advisement, make her recommendation to the Director of the ISP, and Bill would be notified by certified mail.
==> Update as of 14 July 2011 (approximately): Bill finally got his concealed carry license back.
