Question about cutting a barrel

[bigred90gt]

I have always been told that buying a shorter barrel for a shotgun is perfectly legal, so long as you maintain the minimum required length of 18", but cutting an existing barrel, even if you maintain the required minimum, was illegal. I did a quick search on google, and it seems most people are advising that it is indeed legal to cut the barrel down, so long as you do not go below the magic number. Can someone who knows the definitive answer let me know if it is indeed legal, in Texas, to cut the barrel of a shotgun down? It would certainly save me a few dollars, as the only 18.5" barrel I've found was $75 plus shipping. Thanks in advance.

Caymon

[dicion]

Yes, it's no more illegal then adding a magazine extension, or a pistol grip to it. As long as it stays above the magic length number, It is not NFA, and you're good to go

[bigred90gt]

If I'm not mistaken, it is 18" barrel and 26" overall, correct? And barrel length is measured with the action closed, down the barrel from the muzzle end?

[dicion]

If I'm not mistaken, it is 18" barrel and 26" overall, correct? And barrel length is measured with the action closed, down the barrel from the muzzle end?

IIRC you are correct.

[UpTheIrons]

If I'm not mistaken, it is 18" barrel and 26" overall, correct? And barrel length is measured with the action closed, down the barrel from the muzzle end?

Yes. Drop a dowel down the muzzle with the action closed, mark the point where it exits the muzzle, and measure that length. And 26 inches is the correct minimum overall length.

[CaptWoodrow10]

I'm not sure how they came up with such an arbitrary min length. Seems pretty ridicules to me.
How is the taurus judge exempt? Some sort of handgun or multiple caliber exemption?

[dicion]

I'm not sure how they came up with such an arbitrary min length. Seems pretty ridicules to me.
How is the taurus judge exempt? Some sort of handgun or multiple caliber exemption?

It's a handgun. No Shoulder Stock. Caliber has nothing to do with it.

Shoulder Stock = Long gun > Barrel Length Requirement
No Shoulder Stock = Handgun > No Length Requirement

[RPB]

hint: allow for expansion with heat/contraction with cold and bad tape measures.
in other words, I wouldn't cut exactly 18"

My coach gun side-by-side I used to carry walking down a street (Westheimer) near downtown many years ago was 18-1/4" to 18-1/2" and sometimes I"d have to pull out my tape measure to show an officer (rarely, usually they just ask and I"d say 18-1/2" and they'd say ok because they knew it was shorter than the 20" they had in the car... most veteran officers just smiled and waived and I waived back) (That was in Houston, Texas over 30 years ago though.)

Yeah, careful on the overall length too.

I miss that old shotgun, can't find another like it anymore.
(Actually I just found 2 of them, but at over twice what they sold for new when Boito made them for Foley's/K-Mart etc)

[CaptWoodrow10]

I'm not sure how they came up with such an arbitrary min length. Seems pretty ridicules to me.
How is the taurus judge exempt? Some sort of handgun or multiple caliber exemption?

It's a handgun. No Shoulder Stock. Caliber has nothing to do with it.

Shoulder Stock = Long gun > Barrel Length Requirement
No Shoulder Stock = Handgun > No Length Requirement

So if you were to replace the stock on an illegal length shotgun with a pistol grip you would be legal? I am genuinely curious about this.

[PRO]

The judge has a rifled barrel. It is illegal in CA.


"ATF's Hyche said Knox was correct in holding the gun, and ATF agents in Huntsville worked with Craig to make sure he could keep the gun.

To make this particular gun legal requires one of two things, Hyche said. Craig could have the gun rifled - have grooves cut into the barrel - or he could have the gun disassembled."

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2009/10/post_41.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dicion]

I'm not sure how they came up with such an arbitrary min length. Seems pretty ridicules to me.
How is the taurus judge exempt? Some sort of handgun or multiple caliber exemption?

It's a handgun. No Shoulder Stock. Caliber has nothing to do with it.

Shoulder Stock = Long gun > Barrel Length Requirement
No Shoulder Stock = Handgun > No Length Requirement

So if you were to replace the stock on an illegal length shotgun with a pistol grip you would be legal? I am genuinely curious about this.

Now, I think Shotguns have different rules than rifles when it comes to this, so I'm not sure on shotguns.
The difference is whether or not it has a rifled barrel IIRC. The rules if it doesn't, are different than the rules of it does.
As such, I'm not that well versed on shotgun law and NFA.. maybe someone else can hop in and supplement my knowledge.

But as Far as Rifles/Handguns, here are the rules as I understand them.
If someone has a correction, or can explain it better, please, feel free to jump in.

I will use the AR Platform as the example, as it's the most modular one, and easiest to show what I mean.

A Handgun can possibly be made into a long gun. Eg, if you buy an AR Pistol, you Can change it into an AR Rifle (Provided you install a barrel longer than 16", or it's a SBR).
However, Once you make it a long gun, it is always, from then on, a long gun.
You cannot convert a long gun (AR Rifle) back down to a handgun (AR Pistol). I also believe that once you make it a long gun, you cannot remove the stock. It has to keep a stock of some fashion (folding stocks count).

This is why any rifle with a folding stock has to have a 16" barrel (long gun), and any AR or AK Pistol cannot have a stock (handgun).

Technically, once the rifle is a long gun, it is forever to be considered a long gun, no matter what modifications are made after it. "Legally" This transformation happens the instant you make it a long gun. Eg, if you take the Aforementioned AR Pistol, install a 16" Barrel and a stock on it in your garage.... then change your mind and remove it and make it back into a pistol 5 minutes later, you have technically violated the law. Good luck proving it though. Also, BATF loves using 'constructive possession' against people.

It is documented on a 4473 as to what kind of gun it is when it is transferred. So That is where the 'proof of conversion' can be found. Eg, if you buy a 'long gun' on a 4473, and are found to have a pistol with the same serial number... you're in deep doo doo.

If you recall, there used to be shoulder stocks, etc for certain handguns available for sale. I recall seeing some for 1911's and Hi-Powers specifically. Once you install this shoulder stock, it makes your handgun now a Short Barreled Rifle, which is a NFA Item and requires a tax stamp. You can also never remove the stock again, as it is considered a 'long gun' at that point. Hence why they're not too available anymore today, and no one really buys them.

[UpTheIrons]

The answers above are correct, as well as I can remember. The whole thing about the Judge is the rifled barrel. It is a handgun, but shotguns can be cut down to handgun size. Usually though, they don't have a rifled barrel as the Judge does, so it is exempt from the barrel length restriction. It probably has something to do with the utter uselessness of a shotshell load beyond 5 feet or so from that rifled barrel, too.

This stuff is SO convoluted though, that you really need to make it a hobby to keep up with the rules regarding:
Short-Barreled Rifles (not the same as a rifles turned into pistols, or pistols turned into rifles)
Short-Barreled Shotguns (not the same as shotguns turned into pistols)
Any Other Weapons
and anything else one might want to dabble in.

[Katygunnut]

I believe that the distinction has more to do with the stock. Shotguns are defined as shoulder fired weapons (meaning that they have a stock). If a shotgun was never manufactured with a stock, then technically this is an "Any Other Weapon" (AOW), and the minimum barrel length does not apply. There are several sites selling Short-barrel shotguns as AOW's, claiming that you just need a $5 tax stamp.

The thing that does not add up in my mind is that following this logic, the Mossberg 500 cruiser I bought at Academy last year should have been an AOW since it was manufactured without a stock. However, I followed the same process to buy that as I have with any other weapon purchased (no separate tax stamp, etc). Regardless, I would not mind having a short-barrel shotgun like this one http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php if I could do so legally. Impact Guns has this for $699. If Texas ever gets OC, maybe this will be my EDC with a hip holster.

[dicion]

If Texas ever gets OC, maybe this will be my EDC with a hip holster.

Actually, Technically, if this is an AOW, and not a handgun, it is not illegal to carry openly Now.

[ddurkof]

The Mossberg 500 cruiser has a 18.5 inch barrel so it does not fall under NFA as a AOW. If a shotgun has NEVER had a stock, it can become a AOW. If a stock has ever been attached and it has a barrel length less than 18 inches then it is a Short Barrel Shotgun under NFA.

If Joe Blow wants to manufacture a AOW from the Mossberg 500 cruiser it will require an approved Form 1 filed with BATFE with the $200.00 tax. Subsequent transfers will be on a BATFE Form 4 with the $5.00 tax paid. If a Class II manufacture makes the Mossberg 500 cruiser a AOW, he will register it on a BATFE Form 2 (no tax) and then transferred on a Form 4 for the $5.00 dollar tax.

Most of the Class II manufactures buy the virgin receivers so that there is no question that there has been a stock attached when they make the shotgun AOWs.