School me on Riflescopes

[Warhammer]

I inherited my Grandad's Remington 721 .30-06. He bought it in 1952 with a Lyman aperature sight already installed. Over the years, he hunted with it scoped and unscoped. Well, it's mine now, and while I like the Lyman sight, I want to scope it. However, I really don't know much about riflescopes. So, I'm wondering what to look for and how much I'll have to spend. I've read plenty of "spend as much as you possibly can" statements, and that advice is a useless as it is trite. What can I realistically expect for $100, $200, $300...?

A few specific questions I have are:
Variable power vs. fixed? (I've heard you can get a better scope for the money buy going with fixed.)
Recommended magnification? (What is too little, too much, just right?)
Best reticle (mil dot, duplex, BDC, etc...)?
Best size tube?
Best (lowest) mount? (Do you get rings that attach directly to the rifle, or separate rings and bases?)
What else should I consider?

This rifle will remain (as it always has been) a field rifle, not a pseudo-sniper, paper-only, range rifle.

Thanks in advance!

[gigag04]

3x9 scope that costs as much as the rifle is worth.

[The Annoyed Man]

What he said, but you have already indicated that you think this answer is trite. OTH, ask any rifle shooter, me for instance, and the answer will usually be "spend the value of your rifle on a scope." That is actually a commonly accepted rule of thumb, and not a trite answer at all.

However, if you are not willing to do that, then my next best advice is don't waste your money on a $100 scope. You'll be unhappy with it. But if you're able to spend in the $300-$400 range, then you'll probably be able to find a scope in that range that you will be happy with over the long term.

3x9 kinda depends on what distances you plan to shoot at, and how sharp your eyes are. I can't really use a 3x9 myself any longer as my eyes have deteriorated with age, but I still get very good service from a 4.5x14 power scope on one of my rifles. Another one of my scopes is a 3x12, and that one works well for me too.

As to variable power versus fixed power scopes, yes, you'll often get better glass when you compare a fixed power to a variable power scope of the same price, because moving parts cost money. I have a fixed 10x scope, and it is an excellent scope with very clear glass and lots of light transmission. However, variable scopes are almost certainly better for hunting use - and it sounds like that's your primary use for this rifle.

Hope that helps.

[MoJo]

If you are going to hunt deer a 4X fixed with a duplex reticule would be minimum a 3X9 duplex is a good all around power range. Buy a "name" brand scope stay away from the cheapo made in China scopes for serious use. Nikon, Redfield, Leupold, Weaver, and Pentax are all good well made optics that are in a reasonable price range. As far as mounts go, I prefer the Weaver style bases and rings just be sure you are getting the right bases for your rifle. 1" is the American standard tube size with many mounting options. 30mm is Euro Standard and rings are readily available for them as well.

[dicion]

What he said, but you have already indicated that you think this answer is trite. OTH, ask any rifle shooter, me for instance, and the answer will usually be "spend the value of your rifle on a scope." That is actually a commonly accepted rule of thumb, and not a trite answer at all.

However, if you are not willing to do that, then my next best advice is don't waste your money on a $100 scope. You'll be unhappy with it. But if you're able to spend in the $300-$400 range, then you'll probably be able to find a scope in that range that you will be happy with over the long term.

3x9 kinda depends on what distances you plan to shoot at, and how sharp your eyes are. I can't really use a 3x9 myself any longer as my eyes have deteriorated with age, but I still get very good service from a 4.5x14 power scope on one of my rifles. Another one of my scopes is a 3x12, and that one works well for me too.

As to variable power versus fixed power scopes, yes, you'll often get better glass when you compare a fixed power to a variable power scope of the same price, because moving parts cost money. I have a fixed 10x scope, and it is an excellent scope with very clear glass and lots of light transmission. However, variable scopes are almost certainly better for hunting use - and it sounds like that's your primary use for this rifle.

Hope that helps.

They don't start getting better than 'absolute crap' until about $300-400. A common consensus right now, is the best 'value' scopes out there are the SWFA SS series of scopes. For $300, it is said you can get a scope that rivals $600 glass from other manufacturers. Don't know how true this is myself, but lots of people are agreeing.

Here's their 10x42

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical- ... -P499.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Warhammer]

3x9 scope that costs as much as the rifle is worth.

That's not unreasonable. I figure the rifle is worth $300-$400. There's a big difference between "as much as your rifle" and "as much as you can." I've read posts on other forums where guys seem to think that any scope for less than $700-$1000 is complete junk. If I can get a good scope in the $300-$400 price range, I'd be happy with that. I already know to stay away from NCStar and their ilk. That stuff is strictly for airsoft and paintball, IMO. Thanks for the advice, guys!

Another question:
Is it best to buy from a shop and have the scope mounted there, or go for the best deal on the interwebs and DIY the installation? I have a friend who just bought a rifle and scope from Academy, and they "laser bore sighted" it for him. When we went to the range, it wasn't even on paper at 50 yards. Heck, it wasn't even on the backstop! Do the guys working the counter at Cabella's, Bass Pro, etc... actually know how to use a bore sighting tool, or are they just guessing and I could do just as well myself?

[dicion]

Is it best to buy from a shop and have the scope mounted there, or go for the best deal on the interwebs and DIY the installation? I have a friend who just bought a rifle and scope from Academy, and they "laser bore sighted" it for him. When we went to the range, it wasn't even on paper at 50 yards. Heck, it wasn't even on the backstop! Do the guys working the counter at Cabella's, Bass Pro, etc... actually know how to use a bore sighting tool, or are they just guessing and I could do just as well myself?

I think it's the latter, personally

[gigag04]

You'll find a better deal online and then take it to get mounted. Heck you can even mount it and have a shop or a knowledgeable forum member bore sight it.

[jeeperbryan]

I say mount it and bore sight it yourself. Why pay someone to do something you can learn to do yourself. That way you'll have the know how to do it next time. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get on paper by just looking down a barrel and adjusting your scope, especially bolt action.

Regarding how much you spend....I think it's kinda like an engagement ring. Spend as much as you can afford. If you can only afford a $100 scope, go for it. If you can learn to shoot with a cheapo scope, you'll be that much better when you can afford to upgrade. Heck, I've seen seasoned guys with Tasco or cheapo Walmart Bushnells outshoot guys with Leupolds, etc on several, several occasions. I was at a range a few weeks ago and watched 2 guys with a Leupold waste 10 rounds to get on paper, then another 20 to get it "zeroed". In the meantime, I shot 1.5" groups with my 40 yr old cheapo Weaver scope.

[RECIT]

I say mount it and bore sight it yourself. Why pay someone to do something you can learn to do yourself. That way you'll have the know how to do it next time. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get on paper by just looking down a barrel and adjusting your scope, especially bolt action.

Regarding how much you spend....I think it's kinda like an engagement ring. Spend as much as you can afford. If you can only afford a $100 scope, go for it. If you can learn to shoot with a cheapo scope, you'll be that much better when you can afford to upgrade. Heck, I've seen seasoned guys with Tasco or cheapo Walmart Bushnells outshoot guys with Leupolds, etc on several, several occasions. I was at a range a few weeks ago and watched 2 guys with a Leupold waste 10 rounds to get on paper, then another 20 to get it "zeroed". In the meantime, I shot 1.5" groups with my 40 yr old cheapo Weaver scope.

Maybe those guys were taking your advise and learning how to do it themselves.

[jeeperbryan]

I say mount it and bore sight it yourself. Why pay someone to do something you can learn to do yourself. That way you'll have the know how to do it next time. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get on paper by just looking down a barrel and adjusting your scope, especially bolt action.

Regarding how much you spend....I think it's kinda like an engagement ring. Spend as much as you can afford. If you can only afford a $100 scope, go for it. If you can learn to shoot with a cheapo scope, you'll be that much better when you can afford to upgrade. Heck, I've seen seasoned guys with Tasco or cheapo Walmart Bushnells outshoot guys with Leupolds, etc on several, several occasions. I was at a range a few weeks ago and watched 2 guys with a Leupold waste 10 rounds to get on paper, then another 20 to get it "zeroed". In the meantime, I shot 1.5" groups with my 40 yr old cheapo Weaver scope.

Maybe those guys were taking your advise and learning how to do it themselves.

Probably so. But I guarantee they'll never again run into issues zeroing their gun because:

1) Loose stock
2) Loose scope rings
3) Poor boresight job by the kid at Dicks Sporting Goods that was working in the Shoe dept last week

After those discoveries, they were good to go.

[VMI77]

They don't start getting better than 'absolute crap' until about $300-400. A common consensus right now, is the best 'value' scopes out there are the SWFA SS series of scopes. For $300, it is said you can get a scope that rivals $600 glass from other manufacturers. Don't know how true this is myself, but lots of people are agreeing.

Here's their 10x42

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical- ... -P499.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I see the "junk" statement a lot. Not knowing much about scopes myself I wonder what it's based on? Are you saying a $100 scope won't hold zero? --that would obviously make it worthless. If so, is there some objective evidence for this claim or is it anecdotal? What precisely makes a $600 scope worth six times the price of the $100 scope? Are you talking about actual functional differences or something more subjective, like "quality," or the difference between nice and necessary?

[RECIT]

I say mount it and bore sight it yourself. Why pay someone to do something you can learn to do yourself. That way you'll have the know how to do it next time. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get on paper by just looking down a barrel and adjusting your scope, especially bolt action.

Regarding how much you spend....I think it's kinda like an engagement ring. Spend as much as you can afford. If you can only afford a $100 scope, go for it. If you can learn to shoot with a cheapo scope, you'll be that much better when you can afford to upgrade. Heck, I've seen seasoned guys with Tasco or cheapo Walmart Bushnells outshoot guys with Leupolds, etc on several, several occasions. I was at a range a few weeks ago and watched 2 guys with a Leupold waste 10 rounds to get on paper, then another 20 to get it "zeroed". In the meantime, I shot 1.5" groups with my 40 yr old cheapo Weaver scope.

Maybe those guys were taking your advise and learning how to do it themselves.

Probably so. But I guarantee they'll never again run into issues zeroing their gun because:

1) Loose stock
2) Loose scope rings
3) Poor boresight job by the kid at Dicks Sporting Goods that was working in the Shoe dept last week

After those discoveries, they were good to go.

I hear ya, I was just rattling your cage a bit.

[WildBill]

I see the "junk" statement a lot. Not knowing much about scopes myself I wonder what it's based on? Are you saying a $100 scope won't hold zero? --that would obviously make it worthless. If so, is there some objective evidence for this claim or is it anecdotal? What precisely makes a $600 scope worth six times the price of the $100 scope? Are you talking about actual functional differences or something more subjective, like "quality," or the difference between nice and necessary?

This discussion reminds me of the one about how much to spend on speakers for your stereo system. Off the top of my head I can point out a few differences between a good scope and a "junk" scope.

A good rifle scope is a precision assembly consisting of mechanical and optical components. Just "holding zero" isn't good enough. Not only must it hold zero it must be capable of being adjusted without significant hysteresis. A good scope can be adjusted to 1/4 MOA rather than 1 MOA for cheaper scopes. A good variable power scope will hold the same point of aim throughout the range of magnification. A poor (junk) scope may not. A good scope will withstand the effects of constant recoil without moving the point of aim.

The light gathering power of a scope is also important. Poor (junk) optics will look dark, making it harder to find your target under low light conditions. The image quality of a poor scope will be blurry and not as sharp as a good scope. Good scopes are manufactured with high quality optical glass rather than inferior glass or plastic. A good scope has coated optics which result in a better focus across the spectrum of light.

The materials used to manufacture a good scope are more expensive than a poor (junk) scope. A good scope is made from anodized aluminum, which is strong, light weight and resistant to corrosion. A poor (junk) scope is made of carbon steel or plastic. The scope tube for a good scope is manufactured to tight tolerances and is hermatically sealed so that moist air can not enter the scope and create a fog. When subjected to extreme cold, a poor (junk) scope will let in moist air into the tube and fog the lenses.

Whether or not a $600 scope is worth six times the price of the $100 scope is up to the consumer.

That's all I can think of right now.

[Warhammer]

That's some goo info, Bill. I found a good article on Optics Planet's website that explains a lot of factors to consider when shopping for a scope. It's a pretty good read: Linky.