BG having a fake gun "finger" under shirt...

[Medic218]

My gut says shoot first and ask questions later as you truly don't know if he has gun or not.
If someone presents to me with a reasonable belief that they have a gun, especially saying so, and point the possible weapon my way I see no problem in defending yourself. This same person probably has a criminal history that will come to light as LE identifies the body that will suggest a trend towards his illegal activities in the past.
But as with any scenario there are too many variable to say for sure what the right course of action should be.
I'm curious to see what other opinions come from this topic.

[speedsix]

...the law says that if I go into a bank, and tell them I have a gun, or a bomb, and demand money...I've committed an armed robbery...on the street, unless I could discern for sure that he was using his finger...I'd have no reason to call a stranger a liar...just because he's an armed robber...

[Teamless]

with the above statements
Its much like someone selling 'cocaine' and it is really baking powder. they still get the same punishment as if it was cocaine (or at least they are supposed to)

[Keith B]

The down side to this is if you do shoot him, and there is no one else to witness the alleged robbery and supposed gun, then the finger pointing may be at you as he had no gun. It is now your word against his and if he decides to say 'Well, I was just walking down the street and this guy shot me', then you are gonna have a really hard road to prove you were in fear for your life.

Stinks, but unfortunately that is how it could fall out.

[Greybeard]

"reasonable belief of immediate necessity" based upon individual perceptions at that moment in time.

[texanron]

The down side to this is if you do shoot him, and there is no one else to witness the alleged robbery and supposed gun, then the finger pointing may be at you as he had no gun. It is now your word against his and if he decides to say 'Well, I was just walking down the street and this guy shot me', then you are gonna have a really hard road to prove you were in fear for your life.

Stinks, but unfortunately that is how it could fall out.

Good point! Hopefully if the BG had an extensive criminal background the jury would believe the good guy's version of the incident. You just never know how twelve folks are going to view things.

[hirundo82]

if you happen to try and get mugged and the BG pulls the ole "stick'em up ive got a gun" with his finger (or similar object) acting as if it is a gun... how would you react?

Do people actually do this? I thought this was just one of those TV things. In real life, the robber always seems to use a BB gun or some other gun-shaped object if he can't get a real gun.

It doesn't matter if he has a gun or not--he is attempting to commit robbery, and that is one of the situations where deadly force is explicitly allowed. How it will be percieved by the police and the DA if there aren't any witnesses is a risk, but that's always a risk using a weapon vs an unarmed assailant (even if you thought he was armed when you fired).

[The Annoyed Man]

I'd be inclined to get the drop on him with my own finger, announce a Mexican standoff, and ask the perp if this is really the hill on which he wants to get pointed at today.

[WildBill]

The down side to this is if you do shoot him, and there is no one else to witness the alleged robbery and supposed gun, then the finger pointing may be at you as he had no gun. It is now your word against his and if he decides to say 'Well, I was just walking down the street and this guy shot me', then you are gonna have a really hard road to prove you were in fear for your life.

Stinks, but unfortunately that is how it could fall out.

Good point! Hopefully if the BG had an extensive criminal background the jury would believe the good guy's version of the incident. You just never know how twelve folks are going to view things.

Usually the criminal background of the defendant can't be introduced as evidence in a trial.

[Teamless]

Usually the criminal background of the defendant can't be introduced as evidence in a trial.

True, but hopefully the DA would see it and would not file charges

[hirundo82]

Usually the criminal background of the defendant can't be introduced as evidence in a trial.

No, but it could be important in the prosector's decision to press charges or not if you are the typical upstanding member of the community with a squeaky-clean background who usually gets a CHL, and the other guy just got out of prison last week after doing 3 years for armed robbery.

[WildBill]

Usually the criminal background of the defendant can't be introduced as evidence in a trial.

No, but it could be important in the prosector's decision to press charges or not if you are the typical upstanding member of the community with a squeaky-clean background who usually gets a CHL, and the other guy just got out of prison last week after doing 3 years for armed robbery.

You are correct. I think that would have a major impact on the decision making process in the DAs office.

I just got a PM, and in this case the CHL would be the defendant, not the BG. I don't think the BGs criminal record would be admissible unless he decided to testify, which in most cases he would not.

[flintknapper]

Depending upon the totality of the circumstance, you might well be within the confines of the law in defending yourself.

However, in the scenario described, I submit..it would be risky to try and "outdraw" the BG since he already has you "covered".

Real gun or not, personally (unless I felt he would shoot me anyway)...I would just give him what he wanted (presumably my wallet). I will trade a couple hundred bucks and some credit cards over a potential shoot-out any day.

[speedsix]

The down side to this is if you do shoot him, and there is no one else to witness the alleged robbery and supposed gun, then the finger pointing may be at you as he had no gun. It is now your word against his and if he decides to say 'Well, I was just walking down the street and this guy shot me', then you are gonna have a really hard road to prove you were in fear for your life.

Stinks, but unfortunately that is how it could fall out.

...if I shoot him...there ain't gonna be but ONE story...mine...same possibility for problems could arise, but an alternative way to handle it could put a hole in ME if he ain't lyin'...