Marines Get New M27 Light Machine Gun

[Excaliber]

The Marines are reported to be ditching the familiar M249 Squad Automatic Weapon for a new light machine gun called the M27. It looks like an M4 but is full auto and fires from the open bolt position after the first shot. It uses standard M4 magazines instead of a belt feed system.

Details here.

It looks like it has a lot of nice features, but the requirement to insert a new magazine every 30 rounds does not give it the same type of sustained firepower possible with the belt fed SAW. The Marines apparently figure the tradeoff is a good deal.

[dicion]

I can see the usefulness of the open bolt design, but I agree with the magazine part. While very useful that it uses standard mags, I see it actually being used with 100 round drum mags more often.

Not saying its a bad thing, as it's not any worse than the SAW's mag requirement, but at least it will allow them to swap to a standard 30 round mag if needed in the middle of a firefight.

[Excaliber]

I can see the usefulness of the open bolt design, but I agree with the magazine part. While very useful that it uses standard mags, I see it actually being used with 100 round drum mags more often.

Not saying its a bad thing, as it's not any worse than the SAW's mag requirement, but at least it will allow them to swap to a standard 30 round mag if needed in the middle of a firefight.

Of course, the SAW could do that too.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

I thought we figure out long ago, like....45 years ago....in Viet Nam.....that the magazine fed "automatic rifleman" concept blew chunks, and was far inferior to the volume of fire achievable by belt fed weapons?

To give up the versatility and high volume of fire of the M249 for what amounts to little more than a M4 that can fire in the open bolt position is just plain stupid on so many different levels. The beauty of the M249 is that it can be used effectively during the assault in the automatic rifle role, AND it can be used as a sustained fire platform to supplement GPMG's or HMG's. Happiness is being able to link together a gojillion rounds, slap a gun on a tripod, and be able to sustain a high volume of fire by doing barrel changes at the appropriate time.

Good luck with that M27 gunners...

I can see replacing the M249 with a lighter belt fed version that offers the same capabilities, but this is ridiculous.

If I was a Marine Corps leader in a Rifle Platoon, I would be extremely P.O.'d.

[McKnife]

I bet those 100rd beta mag drums will be getting a hefty contract if this rifle gets popular!

[E.Marquez]

Good day to not be a Marine.. Sorry for you Jar Heads if this rumint is true.

Best of luck

[G26ster]

If you're going to eliminate the belt fed MG (not good), why not just give them M4A1s or the older M16A2/3/4? What's the major advantage of this M27?

[E.Marquez]

If you're going to eliminate the belt fed MG (not good), why not just give them M4A1s or the older M16A2/3/4? What's the major advantage of this M27?

Owning the company that makes them and being the general that made the decision so he becomes a part of "History" You know, like the guy that invented the Ford Pinto and AMC Pacer.. History I tell ya... Just wait ten years for the hard copy.

[ELB]

Interesting. I heard a year ago -- almost exactly a year ago -- that the Marines had decided to retire the M249 in favor of the M27 and that it would be fielded in the fall, which is like six to nine months ago. Also, that LWRC had not made it thru the early part of the selection process because the gummint thought it did not have the capability to mass produce and support the numbers needed -- and that HK had won the competition.

When i go to the article linked, the video is about the LWRC version. The article doesn't say who the manufacturer is. And the fielding apparently hasn't happened yet.

Did LWRC come up with some manufacturing capability in the meantime and get back in competition somehow?

break-break.

I have never used any of these rifles for a living, just read about them. One of the comparative advantages I have read of the new version (vs using older M-16s or M-4 models that had full auto capability) is that all the M-27 candidates are gas-piston versions (like the AK) versus gas-impingement like the Stoner design of the older M-16/M-14 models.

Also, the density of fielding (one per four-man squad) seems higher than that of the M-249, is it not?

Be interested to hear more.

[ELB]

OK -- the article linked in the OP has a link to the Marine Corps Times, which is a much longer article. HK version is still the chosen rifle. Fielding last fall was a trial/experiment. Now the marines have decided to go full issue.

And apparently M-249s are not completely out of the field -- nine will be kept in each company.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/20 ... e-062911w/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ELB]

So it's an M4 with a heavier barrel - and it shoots from an open bolt in full-auto...

My understanding is that the HK version -- which apparently is the one the Marines are fielding -- is closed bolt.

[JeepGuy79]

The rifle is closed bolt in semi and closed on first shot in FA then open bolt. The great thing about this setup is that it looks like any other M4 and doesnt put a big target on the carrier like the SAW does. The open bolt is good to keep from having cook offs and with beta mags and surefire 100rd stick mags you can actually reload faster than the SAW with the belt and have 100rd capacity without screaming "hey I have the big machine gun chopping you guys up". Colt has made open bolt M-16's for years and I think the closed bolt/open bolt idea is great. The SAW still has its place and I love them but I wouldn't want to be the guy carrying it walking the streets of afganny myself.

[ELB]

The rifle is closed bolt in semi and closed on first shot in FA then open bolt. ....

Every specification I have read about the HK M-27 that mentions open/closed bolt says it is closed-bolt only. My understanding is that the Marines desired the first-shot-closed/full-auto-open bolt design, for the reasons you mentioned, but the HK (which was the only IAR offered that was closed bolt only) was the winner, apparently on other attributes.

One reference here (4th para): http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/20 ... e_120309w/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Some people speculate that what the Marines really wanted was a full-auto M-4/M-16, and this was their way of end-running the DoD opposition to fielding yet another iteration of the M-4/M-16. (Note that the M-249 SAW is not being completely withdrawn). Considering how the Navy pulled a fast one with the F/A-18 "Super" Hornet, it is certainly possible.

[E.Marquez]

The rifle is closed bolt in semi and closed on first shot in FA then open bolt. The great thing about this setup is that it looks like any other M4 and doesnt put a big target on the carrier like the SAW does. The open bolt is good to keep from having cook offs and with beta mags and surefire 100rd stick mags you can actually reload faster than the SAW with the belt and have 100rd capacity without screaming "hey I have the big machine gun chopping you guys up". Colt has made open bolt M-16's for years and I think the closed bolt/open bolt idea is great. The SAW still has its place and I love them but I wouldn't want to be the guy carrying it walking the streets of afganny myself.

From the real world stats of who gets shot... the data does not support your theory that SAW gunners are being targeted.