Is it time to replace the ATF?

[bilgerat57]

I read with some interest the recent stories about how "Operation Fast and Furious" is causing severe shakeups within the ATF. Of the numerous LEA established by our government, I can't recall any other single agency which has had more incidents of controversy, mismanagement, and abuse than ATF.
In the 70's I heard of several incidents where the ATF rousted patrons and vendors at gunshows. Making lists of those attending, taking photos and using intimidation tactics until the legal outcry forced them to back away. One could make the argument that with the implementation of the 1968 GCA, the ATF was going through growing pains and determining the limits of the new legislation.
Over the next 20 years, from time to time, stories would surface of high handed gun grabs from collectors and dealers who had made minor errors in their paperwork or had trespassed some obscure regulation. Many of these grabs were overturned by the courts, but at a tremendous cost to the victims.
Then comes the tragedy at Ruby Ridge. Although the ultimate authority involved was the FBI, the ATF originated the events leading up to the deaths of a 16 year old boy and his mother. I won't get into the faulty decisions and actions of virtually every agency and person involved, I will note that there is plenty of blame to go around. Then comes the fiasco at Waco with the Branch Davidians. Again, I do not point fingers to assign blame, the death toll speaks volumes all by itself. Now with Operation fast and furious, once again we have this agency involved in an operation which, for whatever reason, ended up being involved and is possibly partially responsible for multiple deaths, this time of law enforcement officers.
How can we have any confidence in this agency any more? The history of bad administration and faulty decision processes by those appointed to direct this agency overshadows the efforts of all the dedicated officers who put it on the line every day. They are all tarred with an undeserved label of being incompetent jack-booted stormtroopers. I don't have the answer on how to fix this problem, other than to say it desperately needs to be fixed. We don't need another batch of political hacks being dropped into positions they aren't qualified for. We don't need another coat of whitewash covering the mistakes of incompetent leaders. Perhaps eliminating the ATF and starting over from scratch, or simply seperating Alcohol and Tobacco from Firearms and creating a seperate agency is needed. Something certainly needs to change.....

[Oldgringo]

Yes, but with what?

[Pawpaw]

Yes, but with what?

A vacuum.

[Dave2]

Yes, but with what?

A vacuum.

The ATF is redudant. Their law-"enforcement" efforts step on the FBI, tax-collecting is the IRS's job, and their regulatory duties belong back with congress.

[PBratton]

Be careful what you ask for, the known evil is better than the unknown evil...

[bilgerat57]

It might make a bit more sense to transfer the firearms and explosives portion to the FBI. Seems fair to me since the FBI usually has to clean up ATF's mess anyhow. The Alcohol and Tobacco sections are primarily revenue based and should stay under treasury purview. I guess you could make the argument that the FDA should actually handle Alcohol and Tobacco, but they don't have the best record either......

[Heartland Patriot]

Yes, but with what?

A vacuum.

The ATF is redudant. Their law-"enforcement" efforts step on the FBI, tax-collecting is the IRS's job, and their regulatory duties belong back with congress.

A lot of the laws that the BATFE "enforces" are ridiculous in nature (go to jail as a felon for ten years if your rifle barrel is 15.9999999 inches long, for instance, when you can buy "pistol" versions of any number of rifles today that are much more "criminal-friendly" than any SBR) or are enforced selectively when the Feds want to "get" someone (try, convict, and sentence a man to ten years for an "illegal machinegun" because his semi-automatic rifle malfunctioned)...those laws need to be combed through, cleaned out, and what all would that leave? Like was stated above I'd bet once that was done, the FBI, IRS and others could handle the handful of parts that remained...and if the field agents at the BATFE wanted to remain in Federal service, they could transfer, after a record review by the gaining agency, and catch REAL bad guys like drug dealers, kidnappers, and actual terrorists...

[G.A. Heath]

I have a better idea, Let's put Ted Nugent in charge of the BATFE, I would even pay good money to watch what happens after that...

[The Mad Moderate]

I have a better idea, Let's put Ted Nugent in charge of the BATFE, I would even pay good money to watch what happens after that...

I would pitch in for that, if nothing else to sit back and watch the show.

[anygunanywhere]

Most of the current federal government including the BATFE could be dismantled and elimninated with little or no affect on the 50 states and the money saved would go far towards balncing the budget. Might even be a surplus.

The best thing about this is the freedom we all would have returne4d to us.

Of course, those feeding at the government teat would not like it at all.

Anygunanywhere

[sjfcontrol]

It might make a bit more sense to transfer the firearms and explosives portion to the FBI. Seems fair to me since the FBI usually has to clean up ATF's mess anyhow. The Alcohol and Tobacco sections are primarily revenue based and should stay under treasury purview. I guess you could make the argument that the FDA should actually handle Alcohol and Tobacco, but they don't have the best record either......

Hmmm, you bring up an interesting point -- What TLA (Three Letter Agency) government agency WOULD you say has the best record? IRS? TSA? DHS? INS? ...

Wow! A google search came up with this website list of government agencies. I had NO IDEA there were so many!

http://www.usa.gov/directory/federal/index.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[EconDoc]

It is time to do away with BATFE. As it is, the only legitimate purpose that they serve, or ever served, was to collect the whisky tax and taxes on other alcoholic beverages.

[Rex B]

When prohibition ended, all those revenooers would have been laid off, unless they found something for them to do.
So the first real federal firearms laws were passed.

[tbrown]

Replace? No.
Eliminate? Yes.

[mr surveyor]

Replace? No.
Eliminate? Yes.

ditto