Got my CHL, Academy wont sell me guns!!

[Silverwings]

Got my CHL in the mail today, I am a legal resident in the process of getting the 10-year Green Card (and being able to apply for citizenship), which happens when your 2-year GC expires, in the meantime you get a letter from Homeland Security saying that you are in that process and your legal status stays the same for one year which is the time they give for the whole process to last.
DPS granted me the CHL so it is obvious that I am not an illegal running from some other country's justice system. If my credentials are good for Homeland Security and DPS they should be good enough for Academy Sports & Outdoors, right?

You would think, but NO, they refused to sell me the Glock 23 that I went to buy today, they said I must show the Green Card to them. I explained the situation, that the card is long expired but that I am in the process of getting the new one and that I was granted all the rights of a legal resident with the letter from Homeland Security, plus "here I can show you my CHL that I got today in the mail!!!"

They asked me to go back home and get 90 days of bills and the letter from Homeland Security, which I did. Not good enough, they said they would look into it and will give me a call tomorrow.
I don't know if I should expect a call or not, I don't want to have to wait 2 o 3 more months until I get the actual new green card in the mail so I can buy another gun (I bought a gun from them before, that same store).

So what should I do? Who can I call for help? I am a member of the NRA, paid for the membership and got the "NRA Bullet Pen" in the mail but that was it, no membership card with a member number or anything.

I demonstrated to Homeland Security and DPS that I am a legal law abiding citizen (resident), but it looks like I cannot demonstrate that to Academy Sports, how come???!!!

Any thoughts?

[gigag04]

Buy elsewhere.

[knljr]

MIstake #1 - buying at Academy.

Find a local gun shop - they won't harass you.

[speedsix]

...Academy is only following the ATF requirements regarding sales to someone in your status...you will also have to provide them with your alien number or admission number on the Form 4473...however, they are not required to have you show them the actual "green card"...just to have you put either one of the above numbers on the form...which would be on your old green card or should be on the Homeland Security letter...ask them to look in their copy of ATF5300.4 Sept 2005 issue date under the Q&A Section R.NONIMMIGRANT ALIENS Question R7...your putting the number on the 4473, showing them your Texas Dr. Lic, and the bills that show you've lived here in Texas for more than 90 consecutive days before the transaction is all that they are required...also have them read Question R1...last paragraph...you HAVE one of the numbers required and you can document the 90 days' residency...

...the CHL has no bearing on someone in your status being able to purchase a weapon...it does not match the criteria of "...must have been issued by a governmental entity for the purpose of identification of individuals..." and so is not an acceptable form of identification document...nor does it provide you the exemption that a hunting license would...

...however...if you bought a valid Texas hunting license, you'd be covered under R1(1) as an exception...another way to do it...

http://www.atf.gov/publications/downloa ... 5300-4.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...I've done this before for a fella when I worked in a pawn shop...lotta hoops to jump through...but that new gun'll be worth it...welcome to the forum...and to the USA!!!

[omegaman]

speedsix is correct. All you have to take with you, in addition to the 90-day proof of residency and other proof of identity, is a current hunting license. When you fill out ATF Form 4473 for purchasing a firearm, you would presumably answer "Yes" to questions #11l and #12 and respond to #20d by writing "valid Texas hunting license". They would have no legal reason for not selling a gun to you. Good luck!

[suthdj]

My wife was in a similar situation after her 2yr GC expired and she applied for the 10yr GC she went down to the office and got a "551 stamp" in her passport which acted same as the green card until the GC finally came in, took 16 months for a back ground check, she cam here on a K1.

[nyj]

Their loss. You can pick a lightly used G23 on texasguntrader for $400-450 :)

[mrvmax]

speedsix is correct. All you have to take with you, in addition to the 90-day proof of residency and other proof of identity, is a current hunting license. When you fill out ATF Form 4473 for purchasing a firearm, you would presumably answer "Yes" to questions #11l and #12 and respond to #20d by writing "valid Texas hunting license". They would have no legal reason for not selling a gun to you. Good luck!

20c and 20d are filled out by the FFL after the buyer answers yes to 11L and 12. The buyer does not fill out anything in section B, only the FFL fills out this section.

[Silverwings]

Speedsix, thank you for all the information. I provided them with my A# and the letter that also shows the number, I even provided them with copies of the expired green card, but not the actual card because I don't have it since it was taken from me when I went to have my fingerprints taken for the biometrics by Homeland Security. I also provided my passport stamped by USCIS (Immigration) which is supposed to be like the GC while you are waiting for the new one to come, I even used that stamp on my passport to travel out of the country and was accepted by immigration when I came back.

So you say that if I buy a hunting license I should be good to go? Why is a hunting license more valid than letters from Homeland Security, a stamp on my passport from USCIS, or a CHL? They were very clear, they don't care what I show to them until I can show the actual expired GC, which I don't have in my possession.

I really want that G23 and they have it on special for $499 (until yesterday, but they promised to hold that price for me if they ever hear back from their HQ office)
I don't like buying used guns, I know some people only buy used guns and that's fine if they like it that way, me, I prefer new ones.

I hope they call me today with the OK to go get it, but what if they don't, where can I complain about something like this when you know you comply with everything and they refuse to recognize that?

[speedsix]

...I would see the manager of Academy and tell him two things...
...1. if his knowledge of the ATF rules and guidelines is so poor, perhaps a visit from the local office of the ATF might be in order to verify his record-keeping is within regulations...which would take him at least half a day to deal with...and that you are ready to pursue this with ATF if necessary...I've done this once and it cost the hard-head an impromptu audit of his books...
...2. you would appreciate his honoring the sale price denied you by his employee's ignorance of the above...
...you might even mention he's getting state-wide attention from the shooting public on this one...

...in additional study on this one Question B13 is very concise and addresses your situation...all they may legally demand from you is your Texas Driver's License and the items proving you've lived here continuously for 90 days previous to the transaction...I can't find where a green card is required for ANYTHING...it MAY have enough info on it to qualify for Gov't-issued ID (never saw one)...but it is NOT required to purchase...

OK!!! still studying...found a clear proof that they can't demand your green card...it's not an approved form of ID...again from 5300.4:

(D5) Is a Social Security card a
proper means of identification for
purchasing a firearm from an FFL?
No. A Social Security card, alien
registration card, or military identification
alone does not contain sufficient
information to identify a firearms purchaser.
However, a purchaser may
be identified by any combination of
government-issued documents which
together establish all of the required
information: Name, residence address,
date of birth, and photograph
of the holder.

[Silverwings]

Great, thank you for all the good info, I will stop by that store today with all this information.

Where can I get these regulations? I want to go with them printed out, and if they still refuse to sell it to me I will tell them that I will contact the local ATF office first thing Monday morning.
I guess there is a website where you can print them out, right?

"...you might even mention he's getting state-wide attention from the shooting public on this one..."
I certainly will and by the way, so you folks know, this happened at:
Academy Sports + Outdoors 0011
14500 Westheimer (at Hwy 6)
Houston, TX 77077
(281) 556-3200

Thanks again,
Leo.

[speedsix]

...Google 5300.4 sept 2005 and you'll get a PDF you can cut and paste from...as of late this summer this is the latest edition...

I've really been reading mine because of your situation...the hunting license exemption available for nonimmigrant aliens may not apply to you, because of question R2: "Typically, who are "nonimmigrant aliens?" ...the answer in part says "...Permanent resident aliens are NOT nonimmigrant aliens. Permanent resident aliens often are referred to as people with "green cards.".......R7 may or may not apply to you, depending on your legal status as a 2-year green card holder applying for a permanent green card...Homeland Security's letter saying your status won't change while they're working on it seems pretty clear about that...and they can get the required number from that letter, rather than demanding an expired green card...they'd choke on an expired ID...ironically...

...either way, under R7 if you are nonimmigrant or under D5 if you're not...I still find no requirement for them to demand your green card, nor is it legal ID, since it lacks some info required...your Texas DL and utility paperwork with the Homeland Security letter will get you by, once you pry open their little minds...

...I would be sure to copy and advise them of B13, which doesn't mention a green card at all...I think you fall in this category rather than nonimmigrant...also run over to the General Information section #5 Sales to Aliens in the United States and that will cover you if you are, as I think, NOT a nonimmigrant alien...it specifies what you must do and does NOT specify a green card...

...have fun and keep us informed...

[bayouhazard]

Carters Country won't sell an AR to a 20 yesr old US Citizen where there's no question the sale is legal. So I don't see why Academy would get in trouble with the ATF for hesitating to sell to a non-citizen who hasn't shown them a green card nor a hunting license.

[speedsix]

...in my one and only experience with such a thing...I'd taken a Glock into a local gunsmith...fine fella...but he demanded that I fill out a 4473 before he returned my gun...which he'd had about 2 days...I argued with him to no avail...then called the local ATF office...the old man of the office told me he'd give him a call and straighten him out...then call me back...next day, the store called me to come pick up my gun...he'd argued with the ATF man and wouldn't listen...they pulled an audit on his books to see how well he understood the rest of the rules...licensees DO answer...refusing a sale when the customer has complied with all the laws' requirements is not an option...unless he's drunk or crazy or some other obvious exception...
...I suspect an alien would get more support from the Feds than you or I would, given their track record of late...at any rate, it ain't right and he should beat 'em...

[Jumping Frog]

Carters Country won't sell an AR to a 20 yesr old US Citizen where there's no question the sale is legal. So I don't see why Academy would get in trouble with the ATF for hesitating to sell to a non-citizen who hasn't shown them a green card nor a hunting license.

A 20 year-old is not a "protected class", whereas race, religion, gender, disability, and national origin are "protected classes".