.45acp questions

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:44 pm

As you guys know I have only been reloading a short while and I need help from the experts. I ordered in some bullets from Precision Bullets, they have a slight flat on the nose so I was pretty sure the ORL would not work at 1.270 and it didn't So I back it off to 1.220 (Measured a Hollow point) and while it worked in my Kimber it wont complete load in my Rock Island .45. While the OD of the bullet is exactly the same as my round nodes FMJ's it seems the tapper on the bullet is causing it to hit the bore in the barrel.

I guess my question is what it the minimum ORL I can use? We had the same results in DWS's guns the Mil Spec Springer did fine but his new gun wont load them either.

Thoughts?

DustinB · Post by **DustinB** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:43 pm

From what I've heard any flat point/hollow point type bullet in the RIA 1911 will require a feed ramp modification to fuction reliably. This milspec pistol was designed for ball ammo as stated in the manual.

I can't comment on it happening on my RIA though, as I've only fired round nose Berry's 230gr.

cloudcroft · Post by **cloudcroft** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:28 am

Diode,

A friend had trouble with his Colt Series 80 1911 Government (circa 1986 production): It would only feed ball ammo (probably as per spec of this model gun). It would fail regularly trying to chamber Federal HydraShoks, both the older versions of this particular ammo with the larger cavity as well as the newer version with the smaller cavity. And forget truncated cone ammo. Various magazines made no difference.

He decided to give the gun to me.

Partly because he already had a Kimber 1911 (one of the more expensive models, I forget which) which he liked and partly because he felt the small-caliber handguns I had were inadequate for SD (they aren't, but he thinks so). And maybe because he didn't like it not working with anything but ball!

What the Colt needed was a very careful polishing of the feed ramp and a bit more of a throating job. He figured I could get it to work. I did. In fact, when we go out shooting, his Kimber has malfunctioned where my Colt doesn't.

So that's what you may need to do, but be real careful because you can cause serious damage to the gun if you do it wrong.

Polishing the ramp is not difficult because all you're doing is polishing (!), not removing serious metal. But throating, you may need to remove SOME metal and at the right angle to properly guide the bullet nose into the chamber. The Colt already looked to have a throating job done on it from the factory, but I increased it a tiny bit more. I believe most 1911s already have this done now, still, a polishing is probably in order at the very least.

Anyway, research the internet on how to do a throating job, step by step, and also note the specs you need to maintain re: the lower edge of the barrel's relationship to the top (horizontal) plane of the feed ramp.

As for the OAL, I have NEVER checked that in all my years of reloading.

Never.

I don't even own a caliper.

I just run a factory round into my seating die and set the seating depth that way and there it stays. Others here will probably call me a blasphemer doing that, but it has always worked for me.

I don't sweat 1000ths of an inch with pistol ammo. Or even rifle ammo for that matter.

And thanks, but I'm not worried, because of not measuring OAL, about becoming one of these:

Good luck,

-- John D.

Thane · Post by **Thane** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:07 am

Interesting...

My Rock Island has only ever choked on two brands/types, assuming I've kept it clean with good springs (Dirty, worn springs, bets are off). It only partially loads CCI Blazer Brass FMJ, consistently, and it absolutely refuses to feed Corbon hollowpoints. Everything else I've ever tried in it, from el-cheapo Wolf to Hydroshok to Hornady to Winchester, all will feed reliably. I've made no modifications to the feed ramp or the chamber. The thing doesn't even seem to care what magazines I use; whether it's an old rusty junk magazine or a Wilson, it feeds.

Hmmm...

nuparadigm · Post by **nuparadigm** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:42 am

The original question, I believe, was about seating depth. There is a good discussion of it at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=210021. Whereas you may need polishing and throating as well, seating depth can make a difference in feeding.

Post by **Charles L. Cotton** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:39 am

As a very general statement with numerous exceptions, the longest OAL that will feed in your mags. is optimum. However, I donâ€™t load anything in .45ACP at max. OAL (I do with some other calibers.)

Many .45ACP loads show an OAL much shorter than the max. OAL of 1.275". For example, my 5th Edition Sierra manual shows at 185gr. JHP at 1.212", but the same wt. bullet in FPJ (flat-point, jacketed) at 1.155". The 200gr. FJP is also shown at 1.155".

I load 230 FMJ to 1.246 (nominal) and my 200 SWC (jacketed) are at 2.242" (nominal). I say â€œnominalâ€? because there is always some variance caused by bullet design and consistency, number of cases in the shell plate, etc.

You didnâ€™t ask about crimping, but this is probably the cause of more ammo-related feeding problems than seating depth, so be sure to check it. .469" to .470" has seems to be optimal for the various loads Iâ€™ve used over the years. Donâ€™t over-crimp trying to fix a feeding problem!!

Chas.

lrb111 · Post by **lrb111** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:31 am

Thane wrote:Interesting...

My Rock Island has only ever choked on two brands/types, assuming I've kept it clean with good springs (Dirty, worn springs, bets are off). It only partially loads CCI Blazer Brass FMJ, consistently, and it absolutely refuses to feed Corbon hollowpoints. Everything else I've ever tried in it, from el-cheapo Wolf to Hydroshok to Hornady to Winchester, all will feed reliably. I've made no modifications to the feed ramp or the chamber. The thing doesn't even seem to care what magazines I use; whether it's an old rusty junk magazine or a Wilson, it feeds.

Hmmm...

I haven't run hollow points through my Rock yet, but I had the same experience with the Blazer Brass. The edge of the case mouths feel almost ragged to the touch. They feel like they need crimping, to me.

I did a thoating polishing job though, as well as tuning the extractor. It made a world of difference. no failures of any kind.
Of course, I'm also approaching break in quantities through the pistol now.

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:32 pm

All good info guys thanks. I'll keep ya posted on what I find.

cloudcroft · Post by **cloudcroft** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:19 am

nuparadigm,

It doesn't matter what the original question was if there are other possible causes of the problem.

OAL was not/has not been proven to be the problem. OAL may or may not have anything to do with this.

Expand your horizons...

-- John D.

nuparadigm · Post by **nuparadigm** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:29 am

cloudcroft wrote:nuparadigm,

It doesn't matter what the original question was if there are other possible causes of the problem.

OAL was not/has not been proven to be the problem. OAL may or may not have anything to do with this.

Expand your horizons...

-- John D.

Cloudcroft,
Or ... OAL may have everything to do with it.

Focus, focus, focus ......

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:16 am

As it turns out the problem seems to be the bullets themselves. No matter what ORL I use the bullet is hitting the bore of the barrel. In other words if you take the barrel out of the gun and slide a round into it, it hits the sides of the bore before it can fully chamber. thus not letting the slide move completely back into firing position. It looks to be the angle of the bullet itself. Factory is not doing this, only the Precision Bullets. Now oddly enough this ammo works fine in my Kimber DWS's Springfield and my friends Kimber. It jams up in my RIA and DWS's Dan Wesson. I think I'll just go back to FMJ. I don't know what else I can do.

Jeremae · Post by **Jeremae** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:50 pm

You didn't get .452 bullets instead of .451?

cloudcroft · Post by **cloudcroft** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:22 pm

nuparadigm,

I HAVE been focusing...but that's been hard to do lately because Aliens try to read my mind if I don't have an aluminum foil liner in my hat...

-- John D.

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:53 pm

Jeremae wrote:You didn't get .452 bullets instead of .451?

I dont think so but I will double check.

lrb111 · Post by **lrb111** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:44 pm

Diode wrote:As it turns out the problem seems to be the bullets themselves. No matter what ORL I use the bullet is hitting the bore of the barrel. In other words if you take the barrel out of the gun and slide a round into it, it hits the sides of the bore before it can fully chamber. thus not letting the slide move completely back into firing position. It looks to be the angle of the bullet itself. Factory is not doing this, only the Precision Bullets. Now oddly enough this ammo works fine in my Kimber DWS's Springfield and my friends Kimber. It jams up in my RIA and DWS's Dan Wesson. I think I'll just go back to FMJ. I don't know what else I can do.

This was helpful to me. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reli ... ecrets.htm

When i filed the extractor, it was because the extractor was too tight. "Fitting" the extractor is simple in theory. But one that's too tight can bind the cartridges, and not allow the rear of the case to slide up the face of the breech when the slide closes.

The test is to take the slide off. Slip a loaded cartridge under the extractor. If you slightly shake the slide the cartridge should fall out. When doing the same test with an empty cartridge case, the case should not fall out. So, enough tension to hold an empty, but not so much as to hold a loaded case.

Polishing the ramp (in the frame) may also help a lot.