LEO Interaction DUI Checkpoint

[Jumping Frog]

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=otprfXCzXQo[/youtube]

The LEO's in the video obviously knew full well that any response by the driver was strictly voluntary, and that they couldn't press the matter.

I found the video interesting. You could see it in the supervisor's face - "This guy's got us, and he knows it !". She knows full well that if she didn't have either the odor of alcoholic beverage, or some other RAS to justify further questioning, she has to cut him loose, and do it now. The questioning is nothing but "fishing".

I am NO fan of drunk driving, but I also don't believe in "the ends justify the means". The means, in this case, is extended question-and-answer while LEO fishes for cause to ask you to "walk the line", etc. (another maneuver which, by the way, is totally voluntary -- check the look on their face when you refuse to walk heel-to-toe !).

IMO, we've often talked about the right to remain silent, but few people actually do so. The video gives an interesting demonstration, and the LEO's handled it very professionally - they didn't get agitated, esp. the supervisor; they just pushed it to the limit, and once they saw the end in sight, they moved on to greener pastures.

Now, I don't know where the video was filmed, but would this also accurately depict TX law? Do we have to respond to a LEO's questions when not stopped for a traffic infraction?

[knotquiteawake]

I would not have the cajones to do that. Congrats to that guy, but boy if there was no video camera rolling I think that would have gone much worse for the guy.

[Scott in Houston]

This is great. It's too bad it's used in the context of catching drunk drivers because that puts it in a bad light... making it look like a way to 'get away with' drunk driving.

The reason I think it's great is just simply the context of officials over-stepping their bounds. Mandatory stops for no cause are one more step closer to a police state. Even in the name of something as heinous as drunk driving, it's wrong.
I'm always glad to see a citizen properly, and respectfully exercising their rights! He did a great job of doing just that. AND... to the officers' credit, they did a great job of recognizing it and responding in kind with respect. The whole scenario went down very well IMO.

I've never been through a check point like this before, but if I ever am, I may do that exact same thing. The whole premise angers me, so that will give me the courage to exercise my rights (I hope). I'll be sober, so what is the worst that can happen? :) (iPhone recorder will be running!)

[RoyGBiv]

Interesting. Very civil libertarian.

[Keith B]

Basically, but getting him to talk a little and ask for their informaiton, they succeeded in getting the info they needed; no resonable suspicion due to smell of alcohol and the guy was cohereant. At that point, they let him roll on.

[speedsix]

...I don't feel like it's an infringement on my rights to submit to a checkpoint for alcohol(or insurance, for that matter) which only takes me a coupla minutes...especially one entered into as professionally and politely as on the video...but, then, I've seen a head hanging by a shred, cars torn in two and grown people crying and screaming...smashed and broken...and watched them die...seen parents find their babies dead...all because of mixing gasoline and alcohol...I guess I've been de-sensitized...

[steveincowtown]

Nice job on the "detainees" part here. Politely exercising his rights.

[Scott in Houston]

...I don't feel like it's an infringement on my rights to submit to a checkpoint for alcohol(or insurance, for that matter) which only takes me a coupla minutes...especially one entered into as professionally and politely as on the video...but, then, I've seen a head hanging by a shred, cars torn in two and grown people crying and screaming...smashed and broken...and watched them die...seen parents find their babies dead...all because of mixing gasoline and alcohol...I guess I've been de-sensitized...

We all watched two buildings fall and 3000+ people die, but I'm not willing to waive constitutional rights as a result of it. Don't mix the horror and emotions of drunk driving with the act of giving up liberties to prevent it. The progressives love to use 'security' and 'safety' as an excuse to grow government power and its intrusion into your life. Emotion is the key to that argument.

[speedsix]

...you are free to form your values and courses of action based on anything you want...and so am I...if you HAD personal loss in the example you use...it's possible that your values would become different than they are now...my in-person experiences with those suffering and dying formed my opinion which I posted...and I stand by it...


...I don't suppose that most here would miss a football game because they refused the security at the ballpark a peek in their coolers...I don't see a DUI Checkpoint as any more of an "infringement"...if the activity is legally allowed and backed by the law(passed by We, the People)...it doesn't bother me in the least...

[steveincowtown]

...I don't feel like it's an infringement on my rights to submit to a checkpoint for alcohol(or insurance, for that matter) which only takes me a coupla minutes...especially one entered into as professionally and politely as on the video...but, then, I've seen a head hanging by a shred, cars torn in two and grown people crying and screaming...smashed and broken...and watched them die...seen parents find their babies dead...all because of mixing gasoline and alcohol...I guess I've been de-sensitized...

We all watched two buildings fall and 3000+ people die, but I'm not willing to waive constitutional rights as a result of it. Don't mix the horror and emotions of drunk driving with the act of giving up liberties to prevent it. The progressives love to use 'security' and 'safety' as an excuse to grow government power and its intrusion into your life. Emotion is the key to that argument.

Exactly....

[SlickTX]

IIRC the practice of DUI checkpoints in Texas was discontinued based on court cases that confirmed that there was no probable cause to stop dozens or even hundreds of citizens on a fishing expedition for drunk drivers. The LEOs have to go back to the tried and true practice of observing erratic driving, running traffic lights, no lights on the car at night, etc. to establish PC.

That stop and the questioning of a law abiding citizen varies little from Gestapo (pick the overbearing sterotype of your choice) asking to see "papers" just because they could.

[hi-power]

IIRC the practice of DUI checkpoints in Texas was discontinued based on court cases that confirmed that there was no probable cause to stop dozens or even hundreds of citizens on a fishing expedition for drunk drivers. The LEOs have to go back to the tried and true practice of observing erratic driving, running traffic lights, no lights on the car at night, etc. to establish PC.

That stop and the questioning of a law abiding citizen varies little from Gestapo (pick the overbearing sterotype of your choice) asking to see "papers" just because they could.

I believe they've turned DUI checkpoints into random DL and insurance checks. I know because I received a panicky call from my nephew a few months ago saying he was stopped at a checkpoint in Dalworthington Gardens. He knew that when they checked his license they would find a warrant for an unpaid ticket in Irving. Then I started panicking because he was currently borrowing my car! That cost me $250 the next morning. Now I've learned that I need to ask people if they have warrants before I let them borrow a car.

[speedsix]

...Texas doesn't do them...law doesn't allow it...30+ states' laws do, though...

[txmatt]

...I don't suppose that most here would miss a football game because they refused the security at the ballpark a peek in their coolers...I don't see a DUI Checkpoint as any more of an "infringement"...if the activity is legally allowed and backed by the law(passed by We, the People)...it doesn't bother me in the least...

The freedom to be able to move about the country without being searched without cause is way more fundamental of a right than that to attend an event.

[speedsix]

...I totally agree...but the example remains...thousands of (gasp-even Texans) surrender their 4th amendment rights to get into a ballgame...or a concert...and we disarm to go into this place or that...we pick and choose what we'll get upset over...and all of us draw our personal lines in the sand...based on our life experiences/values...