M1 Carbine

[9mmfan]

Let's say I had an itch for an M1 Carbine. What do I need to know, and what should I look for? I am assuming that all of the modern repro rifles leave something to be desired. However, the CMP will probably never have another. Dear friends, please help a brother out.

[The Annoyed Man]

You need to do like I did when I got mine: get ahold of G26ster and invite him over to your house, and ask him to bring along his books and his go/nogo gauges.

When my son gave me a 1943 Inland example this past Christmas (which made me get all teary-eyed), G26ster and I connected. We stripped the gun down to is major parts groups and looked up all the numbers in his books. We were able to come up with a pretty good idea of the gun's history and degree of originality.

He also checked the headspacing and the muzzle wear......all of which checked out very favorably. I have since had it to the range a couple of times and have put perhaps 100 rounds of reloads through it, and it functions beautifully and is surprisingly accurate with its itty bitty peep sights.....not sub MOA or anything, but pretty much a full magazine into a 2" or 3" circle at 50 yards. In other words, plenty good enough for plinking and social work at short ranges.

Here's mine:


And, with the 1943 vintage Ithaca 1911A1 I inherited from my dad:

[G26ster]

Let's say I had an itch for an M1 Carbine. What do I need to know, and what should I look for? I am assuming that all of the modern repro rifles leave something to be desired. However, the CMP will probably never have another. Dear friends, please help a brother out.

You're right, the CMP sold out last year, and will not have any more. Beware of the "Korean Garand/Carbine" threads on the net. These guns were sold to Korea and will have to come back via importers (if they ever do) and will not go to the CMP.

In shopping for a M1 Carbine, there were 11 prime contractors. The current repros on the market do not have a great reputation (Universal, Auto Ordinance, etc) and have no "history" like the originals. However, the early Universals, and Plainfields were not that bad I understand. Beware of phrases like "WWII bring-back, all original, etc" as 90% of the original M1 Carbines went through arsenal rebuilds and are generally a mixmaster of parts from numerous manufacturers and sub contractors. True "bring-backs and originals command huge prices. Things like original early stocks with superb cartouches, early barrel bands (no bayonet lug), flip sights can add many, many hundreds of dollars to a carbine's value, but in today's market are usually reproduction items or outright fakes. Also, if you don't want import marks on a carbine, they generally cost more than those with import marks. Original M1A1 paratrooper models can go for $2500 - $5000 easily.

A good WWII mixmaster arsenal rebuilt carbine will cost between $650 - 1200 depending on rarity of manufacturer and condition. The easy ones to find are such as Inland, Underwood, Saginaw, National Postal Meter. The rarer ones like Rock-ola, Saginaw S'G', and the very elusive Irwin Petersen are pricier to outrageous. The Winchesters, due to the name, are also sought after and usually command a premium price. Frankly, none are "better" than others, just some are more "collectible" based on number manufactured.

In my opinion, the best place to find one is on the classified "For Sale" pages of the CMP forums. http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=88" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; You may have to wait a bit before a good one comes up, but they are there all the time. I've ben considering posting one of my Inlands there for sale, but have not decided to sell for sure yet. Hope this helps, and you can PM me if you have any questions.

[Texas_Tactical]

the 1943 vintage Ithaca 1911A1 I inherited from my dad:

PawPaw That is a Beautiful Rifle. I love WWII history, movies, books, seen all history channel specials. I would love to own one someday

[9mmfan]

Gentlemen, much thanks for the very useful information. Don't know if I'll be looking for one any time soon, but my recent aquisition of the Garand gave me some knee-jerk US milsurp fever. Though the prices certainly aren't going to go down in the future... You guys think my wife would buy hat? BTW, TAM, I think the pairing of your father's .45 with he carbine gifted by your son is beyond cool. History made better with sentiment. Kinda chokes me up just hearing about it. You are a lucky man sir. Once again, thank you both for the info.

[Hamourkiller]

Let's say I had an itch for an M1 Carbine. What do I need to know, and what should I look for? I am assuming that all of the modern repro rifles leave something to be desired. However, the CMP will probably never have another. Dear friends, please help a brother out.

9mmfan, check with your friends who were around in 1968 or so. The NRA had a deal that you got a carbine cheap from the DCM for joining or signing up others with the NRA. Also check with any police friends from that time. A lot of WWII rebuild carbines are sitting in closets just waiting to be shot!

Good luck on finding that carbine, plus you need another M1 Garand or two!

These 3 are from that time frame, my Dad got two in 1968 and the third came from a friend who aquired it the same way and got tired of it sitting in his closet.

[The Annoyed Man]

the 1943 vintage Ithaca 1911A1 I inherited from my dad:

PawPaw That is a Beautiful Rifle. I love WWII history, movies, books, seen all history channel specials. I would love to own one someday

Thanks, but I ain't a PawPaw just yet, although that may be not too far off.

But you're right about "beautiful." There are three military rifles I have always loved just because of the happy accident of their impeccable visual lines. Or maybe it isn't just a happy accident....I don't know.....maybe the designers were actually concerned with esthetics. In any case, those three are the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine, and the M14/M1A. They just "look right," and the ergonomics of cheek to stock, hand to wrist, finger to trigger, and the almost automatic sight picture that results bear that out. They are all three a "rifleman's rifle." I've never owned a Garand, but I have held one a few times and shot one once; but I do currently own a M1 Carbine and I have owned a M1A. All three felt instantly familiar the first time I picked them up and shot them, and size differences excepted they all feel the same to me. I don't know how much direct influence if any that John Garand might have had had over the development of the carbine, although at the very least indirect influence seems manifest, but he did design the M1 Garand and he did design an early prototype (T20) of what was to become the M14/M1A, and the final design was certainly built on his original M1 Garand action and ergonomics. The man was a bloody genius.

What's amazing to me about the difference between Congress then and now is this:

• John C. Garand was awarded a couple of medals of appreciation by the government during the war, but he never earned one single penny of royalties for the rifle he designed, which no less than George Patton (who was a tanker to boot, not a rifleman) pronounced at the time "the greatest battlefield implement ever designed." A bill was introduced in Congress around the end of WW2 to award Garand $100,000 in appreciation and recognition of his brilliant contribution to winning the war.
• The bill did not pass.
• Today, Congress will give money to anybody for anything, so long as it will violate their oath to uphold the Constitution and will squeeze the taxpayers just a little harder. Back then, they wouldn't give $100,000 to a man who never got a penny of royalties for a rifle that, besides the atom bomb, was the single most important battlefield weapon of the war, without question absolutely germain to our having won that war. But today, they pass Obamacare; they fund spanish language TV and radio advertising to lure as many illegals as possible onto the public dole, and they debate hundred million dollar bridges to nowhere.................but they couldn't give John C. Garand $100K back in 1945 because they couldn't justify the expenditure, even though he had without question earned it.

We are a doomed nation.

[9mmfan]

Hamourkiller, that is a very good idea, I didn't know that about the time 'round '68. The only guy I know personally who has one cannot be talked into parting with it. I didn't exist until late in '73, but do know some folks that are older than I am, so I will have to ask around. On an ever so slightly related note, I did have a gentleman of my acquaintance tell me today that he would have given me an Arisaka that his father brought back from WWII, mum intact, as he felt it couldn't/shouldn't be shot, due to the stock being broken. The "would have" comes into play as he says he is fairly certain that his brother took it and did God knows what to it. I console myself with the idea, whether true or not, that ammo for it is fairly scarce. NOBODY tell me if I am wrong on that, please. I certainly would have oiled it up good and put it in the safe for lookin' at every now and again purposes. Then I would have had to get a K98 or something similar. And probably a Mosin to go with the 1895 my uncle gave me. I can hear my beloved wife's face twisting into a scowl already. I bet she would shoot every one of 'em, though.

[SQLGeek]

TAM, you hit the nail on the head about the M1, M1 Carbine and M14/M1A. Owning an M1 and having fired all three, they all handle quite naturally for me. I've noticed this with the M1 especially. The ergonomics are intuitive and minus the dreaded M1 thumb (which can be avoided with proper technique), loading is an easy and fluid motion.

I really do need to get a Carbine before they become impossible to find. I still curse myself for not jumping on one from the CMP when they were still around.

[9mmfan]

I really do need to get a Carbine before they become impossible to find. I still curse myself for not jumping on one from the CMP when they were still around.

I really wish you cats would stop attempting to persuade me with actual reason and logic.

[SQLGeek]

In just a few years they have become a lot harder to find at a reasonable price. Same with 98ks and even WWII era Enfields.

[glbedd53]

My dad carried one in Korea but he forgot to bring it back for me.

[jimlongley]

My dad carried one in Korea but he forgot to bring it back for me.

My grandpappy had one in WWII, I still have it.