illegal to make gun available to minors, yet...

[wgoforth]

Although it is illegal to make a readily dischargeable firearm illegal to one under 17 years of age, we hear stories of 10, 12, 15 year olds grabbing loaded gun and shooting burglar, and thankfully are usually made heroes for so doing. Is there some exception actually written in the law that I am not thinking of, or just good ol Texas common sense. Just wondering in a more liberal county if both could end up arrested.

[Keith B]

Yes. This was taught at instructor school and you should be teaching it as well.

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In
this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor
before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is
committed if:
(1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by
Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the
firearm; and
(2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the
death of or serious injury to the child.
(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous
position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign
that contains the following warning in block letters not less than
one inch in height:
"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON
AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE
LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 83, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, § 15.02(g), eff. Sept.
1, 1999.

[wgoforth]

Yes. This was taught at instructor school and you should be teaching it as well.

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In
this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of
age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable
person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable
firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm
in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm
inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a
readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal
negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person
knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of
this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged
in an agricultural enterprise.
(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under
this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor
if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious
bodily injury to himself or another person.
(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor
before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is
committed if:
(1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by
Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the
firearm; and
(2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the
death of or serious injury to the child.
(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous
position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign
that contains the following warning in block letters not less than
one inch in height:
"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON
AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE
LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 83, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, § 15.02(g), eff. Sept.
1, 1999.

Actually do not recall that exception being discussed...they chased a rabbit about what was a minor and various disagreements about it. ie, Houston defining "Under 17" as meaning 18. But i should have noticed that exception specified anyway. Thanks.

[Thomas]

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;

It sounds like that's basically necessity:

§ 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is
immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm
clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of
reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law
proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification
claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

So basically it's illegal up until the point it is used to prevent a greater crime?

[wgoforth]

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of
age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people
or property;

It sounds like that's basically necessity:

§ 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is
immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm
clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of
reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law
proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification
claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

So basically it's illegal up until the point it is used to prevent a greater crime?

See, that's part of what I find confusing... If you are supposed to keep it locked, a child could not gain access even in an emergency.

[OldCannon]

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In
this section:
...
(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous
position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign
that contains the following warning in block letters not less than
one inch in height:
"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON
AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE
LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 83, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, § 15.02(g), eff. Sept.
1, 1999.

Ah, interesting. I have the federal law-required sign, but not a Texas law-required one. Reckon I need to make one.

[wgoforth]

§ 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In
this section:
...
(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous
position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign
that contains the following warning in block letters not less than
one inch in height:
"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON
AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE
LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 83, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, § 15.02(g), eff. Sept.
1, 1999.

Ah, interesting. I have the federal law-required sign, but not a Texas law-required one. Reckon I need to make one.

You know I have yet to see that in any sports store or gun shop I go to....

[Keith B]

If your 'child' is responsible enough to be able to use the firearm to defend themselves with it, then they can have the combination. Also, read that the law says 'Readily Dischargable' firearm, meaning 'loaded', whether one is in the chamber or not. If a 12 year old has their own shotgun, and their own shells and it stays unloaded, then it is not a crime. If they load it to shoot a burglar, it is not a crime. If they gain access via a combination or other locked means to a readily dischargable firearm to protect themselves, it is not a crime.

[wgoforth]

Ok, seems the exception/defense here is NOT in the CHL-16. Seems that should be in it..... Have now made a slide for my PPT to show in class. This is what happens when we educate one another.

[Keith B]

Ok, seems the exception/defense here is NOT in the CHL-16. Seems that should be in it..... Have now made a slide for my PPT to show in class. This is what happens when we educate one another.

Actually, it is. I had overlooked it.

[wgoforth]

Ok, seems the exception/defense here is NOT in the CHL-16. Seems that should be in it..... Have now made a slide for my PPT to show in class. This is what happens when we educate one another.

Actually, it is. I had overlooked it.

Lol, ok...well, now I have a slide that emphasizes the point all the more!

[Ameer]

I was taught you could legally leave the gun unloaded and easily accessible with the ammunition also easily accessible. I was also taught there's no crime committed if the child preemptively loads the firearm for self defense use when you leave home for the evening or when they come home from school. The wisdom of that arrangement depends a lot on the child, but it looks like it's legal.

[rm9792]

If your 'child' is responsible enough to be able to use the firearm to defend themselves with it, then they can have the combination. Also, read that the law says 'Readily Dischargable' firearm, meaning 'loaded', whether one is in the chamber or not. If a 12 year old has their own shotgun, and their own shells and it stays unloaded, then it is not a crime. If they load it to shoot a burglar, it is not a crime. If they gain access via a combination or other locked means to a readily dischargable firearm to protect themselves, it is not a crime.

I was waiting on someone to mention the two important words "readily dischargeable". That is your out. I have a shotgun under the bed but it is not racked, more for safety reasons than the silly "the sound is scary" line of thought. My daughter knows how to rack it if needed. Safety meaning, the cat plays under there and Murphys Law says he could likely push the safety off then get his paws caught in the trigger guard...

[Keith B]

If your 'child' is responsible enough to be able to use the firearm to defend themselves with it, then they can have the combination. Also, read that the law says 'Readily Dischargable' firearm, meaning 'loaded', whether one is in the chamber or not. If a 12 year old has their own shotgun, and their own shells and it stays unloaded, then it is not a crime. If they load it to shoot a burglar, it is not a crime. If they gain access via a combination or other locked means to a readily dischargable firearm to protect themselves, it is not a crime.

I was waiting on someone to mention the two important words "readily dischargeable". That is your out. I have a shotgun under the bed but it is not racked, more for safety reasons than the silly "the sound is scary" line of thought. My daughter knows how to rack it if needed. Safety meaning, the cat plays under there and Murphys Law says he could likely push the safety off then get his paws caught in the trigger guard...

If he gun has rounds in it at all it is considerd 'readily dischargable'.

(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm
that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the
chamber.

[rm9792]

Did that change? Dont remember that being n there.