Victim describes home invasion robbery by four suspects in S

[JALLEN]

SUGAR LAND, TX (KTRK) -- A wife recalls the terrifying moments as her family was held at gunpoint, tied up and robbed in their own home.

The gunmen were dressed as law enforcement officials, but the truth is they were a gang of thieves. Now this Sugar Land neighborhood is on alert.

The men were wearing ski masks and shirts that stated they were narcotics officers. They obviously were not and investigators are working feverishly to find them before they strike again.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=8813644

[ClarkLZeuss]

You know, I sometimes talk myself out of carrying to work, because I legitimately feel quite safe at my office. But this story clearly makes the point that the time when I am most vulnerable is that walk down the driveway from my car when I get home. There are a few hiding places in my front/side yard where someone could jump me from as I enter the garage if I'm not paying attention. Another reason to always carry. Although, getting jumped from behind and having my hands zip tied sure would make difficult.

[baldeagle]

Sounds like these guys knew the husband ran a convenience store and took money home with him rather than depositing it in the bank. Then they went to his home and laid in wait until he arrived.

[RoyGBiv]

I legitimately feel quite safe at my office.

I was out to lunch with my mother yesterday. As we approached the table, I offered her the seat facing away from the door, so i could take the other. She asked "Why did you want me to sit here?". "So I could face the door", I said. "But this is a safe neighborhood", mom said.

[Frankie]

Glad she uses her alarm even when she's home. It very well may have saved all their lives.

This

She guesses the men were inside five to 15 minutes, only running when they heard deputies responding

bothers me a lot.
Were they listening to local dispatch on a scanner or did they hear sirens from responding officers? I didn't think most departments respond to residential alarms with lights and sirens. If they are listening in to dispatch on a scanner, that's another bummer as I'm an avid scanner enthusiast. The criminals are causing most departments to go to secure radios and that makes it impossible for us hobbies to listen in and know what's going on in our local community. Punish the masses because a few dirt bags .

[jimlongley]

I legitimately feel quite safe at my office.

I was out to lunch with my mother yesterday. As we approached the table, I offered her the seat facing away from the door, so i could take the other. She asked "Why did you want me to sit here?". "So I could face the door", I said. "But this is a safe neighborhood", mom said.

My grandmother, following her mother's lessons, would not sit with her back to a window or door. Made for some interesting "musical chairs" when going out to eat when I was a child, and until I was grown I never knew why. She was born in Santa Fe and grew up on Army posts throughout the west.

[fickman]

This

She guesses the men were inside five to 15 minutes, only running when they heard deputies responding

bothers me a lot.
Were they listening to local dispatch on a scanner or did they hear sirens from responding officers? I didn't think most departments respond to residential alarms with lights and sirens.

I was on jury duty this summer for a home invasion robbery. The robbers heard an ambulance a few blocks away, thought it was the police, started yelling, "5-oh, 5-oh," and ran.

Could've been anything: deputies on another call, ambulance, fire truck, or divine intervention!

[fickman]

And FWIW, I guess we just have to live with officer impersonators being the Achilles heel of armed self defense.

In some instances you could call 911 to verify the officer, but a lot of the times, unless you're really willing to gamble or pick up something subtle and have absolute confidence it's worth staking your life on, this is a place we're near our most vulnerable. (Obviously once they tie you up or start emptying your pockets you know they aren't real, but these clues would often come too late to adequately meet force with force.) I'm not wiling to take a calculated bet in any way that would risk harming a real officer.

I'd like to see some major increases in minimum penalties for violent crimes that involve impersonating an officer.

[rp_photo]

And FWIW, I guess we just have to live with officer impersonators being the Achilles heel of armed self defense.

LE agencies could help out a lot by cutting back on "overkill" raids for things like unpaid student loans, the wrong kind of guitar wood, raw milk, etc.

Reducing the number of overlapping agencies such as ISD police, University police, Metro police, Constables, Fire Marshalls who play cop, etc. would help as well, not to mention saving tax money.

In other words, less government and laws. That way, it would be easier for the law-abiding to know they weren't doing anything wrong and discrern the imposters in time.

[VMI77]

I'm not wiling to take a calculated bet in any way that would risk harming a real officer.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. It seems to me that unless you're expecting, prepared, and waiting for an attack by someone other than LE, that every home invasion defense is likely to be a calculated bet that risks harming a LEO --albeit an extremely small one for most of us. For example, if your door is kicked down in the middle of the night, how do you know you just didn't hear it when officers yell "police" ten seconds before? And even if you did, since anyone can yell "police," how are you going to know they really are? So, essentially, it sounds like you're saying that you'd rather risk your own life (fair enough), and whatever consequences may fall upon your family (not so sure about that), than take any risk of harming an officer.

Law enforcement apparently believes that preventing people from ingesting certain drugs, and the safety of police officers, is far more important than the lives of innocent people, otherwise, they wouldn't be conducting these raids as they do. They're more worried about a drug dealer flushing his stash down a toilet than they are about killing your pets, killing innocent parties that may also be in a suspect's home, or killing innocent people at the wrong address. So,they're the ones who have have created the risk you're worried about if they break down your door by mistake and you defend yourself; and they are not particularly concerned --they will just exterminate you with overwhelming force.

We have a right to defend ourselves and our families. If we defend ourselves in a home invasion mounted by police, we're not initiating a violent action, just responding to a violent action taken against us, believing we are defending ourselves against extremely dangerous and violent criminals. Morally, the onus should be on law enforcement to insure that if they use such violent tactics, especially for drug crimes, when there is no imminent threat to innocent life (and when they had enough time to get a warrant or plan a raid), that they employ them against the right people. If they kick down the door of some innocent person and get killed because the people inside defend themselves there shouldn't even be charges against the defenders (unless the DA can prove that the shooter knew he was confronting police officers when he shot).

I'm not a criminal. I don't sell drugs and I don't consume illegal substances. I don't do anything that would justify the police kicking down my door in the middle of the night, and I don't live in a neighborhood where such police action is likely to be taken. So, while I would not intentionally confront police officers (which would be a stupid act and an almost certain death sentence), and if given time may be able to verify whether or not my residence is being invaded by criminals or police officers (basically, via surveillance cameras), it seems to me that the most reasonable assumption on my part is that anyone kicking my door down is a criminal intent on doing harm to me and mine. Why should I have to jeopardize my ability to defend myself on the extremely unlikely chance that it's the police outside kicking down the wrong door? If that extremely small likelihood balanced against an almost certainty that an invader is not a LEO is going to prevent me from mounting a defense, why not just keep all my guns locked up in a safe at night?

[rp_photo]

Law enforcement apparently believes that preventing people from ingesting certain drugs, and the safety of police officers, is far more important than the lives of innocent people, otherwise, they wouldn't be conducting these raids as they do. They're more worried about a drug dealer flushing his stash down a toilet than they are about killing your pets, killing innocent parties that may also be in a suspect's home, or killing innocent people at the wrong address. So,they're the ones who have have created the risk you're worried about if they break down your door by mistake and you defend yourself; and they are not particularly concerned --they will just exterminate you with overwhelming force.

Amen. The war on drugs is a failure and ruins as many lives as the drugs themselves, especially as far as marijuana which should have been legalized 40 years ago.

And any coward cop who kills a family pet especially deserves to be treated as a home invader.

[JALLEN]

AFAIK, these LE "home invasions" are all authorized by a so-called "no-knock" warrant, signed by a judge on a showing of probable cause. The trouble comes when (a) the cops go to the wrong house by mistake, or (b) they go the the right address for the wrong reason.

There was one of those here 25 years ago in which the police stormed in, the homeowner tried to defend himself, hopelessly outgunned, and ended up permanently injured. He was a law abiding citizen, but had the misfortune to have his address furnished to the police by an informant who was being pressured to deliver information, bad information as it turned out. There was eventually a settlement, hardly a desirable outcome. In most of the cases of wrong address, they neither apologize nor help clean up.

I'm not sure the no-knock procedure is justifiable given the prevalence of error, or a safe or efficient method of combating crime anyway.