To shoot or not to shoot

[Laneman]

I recently made it to the four year mark of concealed carry and have renewed my CHL for another term. I wanted to share some thoughts with new CHL holders. I went through an excellent CHL renewal class taught by law enforcement officers. A key part of the class was making the decision of when to use deadly force. A lot of first time students were asking questions like "can I shoot someone if...?" The instructors taught that we should change our philosophy to "How can I avoid having to shoot this person?" They reminded us that if we shoot someone it can be the beginning of a long and expensive nightmare for the CHL. There will not be high fives and attaboys when the police arrive. The CHL may find himself at gunpoint when they first show up. He will be questioned, possibly at the jail after a free ride in their car. His gun will be taken away for a long time during the investigation. He may have to hire a lawyer and spend thousands to defend against possible charges for murder. Even in a clearly justified use of deadly force, any local witnesses to the shooting may twist the truth in favor of the criminal. If this happens he may begin receiving death threats, may have to leave his job, home, and community. My recommendation to new CHL holders is to study the laws, train often, and do anything you can to avoid drawing your weapon. Never tell anyone but your significant other that you are a CHL holder.

[C-dub]

That sounds about right. They seem to have been looking out for you and trying to help. I think that a person that is responsible and honest will know when the time is right to shoot someone and won't second guess the decision. The BG will make that decision for us. It's similar to what an old commercial where a Marine says to his men and what Romney said in the last debate. "We are not conquerers. We are liberators." It is my contention that CHL holders are not killers. We are protectors and would rather not take a life if we have the choice, but have come to the conclusion that Alvin York did almost a century ago. You sometimes have to take a life to save a life or lives.

[PBratton]

but have come to the conclusion that Alvin York did almost a century ago. You sometimes have to take a life to save a life or lives.

Love your reference to Sgt. York.

Bet most folks younger than 30 have no clue what it's about without looking it up first.

[SRH78]

To put it simply, you don't shoot when you can, you shoot when you must. At that point, as important as it is, the law becomes a secondary concern to survival.

[Dirvin]

Never tell anyone but your significant other that you are a CHL holder.

How does everyone handle this? Thinking through who I want to tell/not-tell.

Bet most folks younger than 30 have no clue what it's about without looking it up first.

I'm under thirty and appreciate the York quote. Excellent book and movie.

[SRH78]

Never tell anyone but your significant other that you are a CHL holder.

I definitely agree that it is not something you should broadcast and that, in general, the fewer people who know, the better but I wouldn't limit it to my significant other. Some of my family and close friends know that I carry. I also don't generally mind another chl holder or someone interested in acquiring a chl knowing. I recently had a chat with a young guy at Cabelas who was in the process of getting his chl and was shopping for a ccw. He really had very little idea what he could conceal or how at that point. My brother, who I have had many chats with about chl, will have his in hand any day now.

There are certainly benefits to helping other out and to limiting the number of people who know we carry and each person needs to think it through and see where the line is for them.

[Oldgringo]

I recently made it to the four year mark of concealed carry and have renewed my CHL for another term. I wanted to share some thoughts with new CHL holders. I went through an excellent CHL renewal class taught by law enforcement officers. A key part of the class was making the decision of when to use deadly force. A lot of first time students were asking questions like "can I shoot someone if...?" The instructors taught that we should change our philosophy to "How can I avoid having to shoot this person?" They reminded us that if we shoot someone it can be the beginning of a long and expensive nightmare for the CHL. There will not be high fives and attaboys when the police arrive. The CHL may find himself at gunpoint when they first show up. He will be questioned, possibly at the jail after a free ride in their car. His gun will be taken away for a long time during the investigation. He may have to hire a lawyer and spend thousands to defend against possible charges for murder. Even in a clearly justified use of deadly force, any local witnesses to the shooting may twist the truth in favor of the criminal. If this happens he may begin receiving death threats, may have to leave his job, home, and community. My recommendation to new CHL holders is to study the laws, train often, and do anything you can to avoid drawing your weapon. Never tell anyone but your significant other that you are a CHL holder.

Good post! Mrs. Oldgringo and I both went to renewal school this past weekend. A couple of thoughts, if you please:

* I really don't care who knows if we have a CHL. I want everyone to wonder if, perhaps even suspect, that I am carrying. I'm way past the age of foot races and fisticuffs.
* In addition to the travails you mentioned following a CHL shooting, you might add Civil suit to the problems that may be encountered.

Yes, shooting someone is serious business and a lot of bad things will probably happen before the CHL is totally exonerated.

[AustinBoy]

My CHL instructor asked the class "Would you pay $15,000 to shoot the bad guy? Because that is what it might cost you even if you are justified."

Just a thought.

AB

[WildBill]

My CHL instructor asked the class "Would you pay $15,000 to shoot the bad guy? Because that is what it might cost you even if you are justified."

Just a thought.

AB

I would ask the instructor, "If you spent the time to think about 'Would you pay $15,000 to shoot the bad guy?', would he have enough time to shoot and kill you?

Just a thought.

[AustinBoy]

This was during a big "what if" question session. There was some pretty silly questions being asked. His comment kind of put it in perspective.

He wasnt saying to think about that in the actual situation.

Good point for clarification though.

Thanks
AB

[WildBill]

This was during a big "what if" question session. There was some pretty silly questions being asked. His comment kind of put it in perspective.

He wasnt saying to think about that in the actual situation.

Good point for clarification though.

Thanks
AB

I wasn't trying to be dismissive of your comment. I agree that some of the "what ifs" that I have heard are pretty silly. I always advocate thinking before acting. But if a gun pulls a gun on me, I am not going to be thinking about money at that moment.

[Oldgringo]

This was during a big "what if" question session. There was some pretty silly questions being asked. His comment kind of put it in perspective.

He wasnt saying to think about that in the actual situation.

Good point for clarification though.

Thanks
AB

I wasn't trying to be dismissive of your comment. I agree that some of the "what ifs" that I have heard are pretty silly. I always advocate thinking before acting. But if a gun pulls a gun on me, I am not going to be thinking about money at that moment.

Your britches?

[C-dub]

Never tell anyone but your significant other that you are a CHL holder.

How does everyone handle this? Thinking through who I want to tell/not-tell.

Bet most folks younger than 30 have no clue what it's about without looking it up first.

I'm under thirty and appreciate the York quote. Excellent book and movie.

When I first got my license I only told family out of respect. My brother and sister both had their own families and kids and they would notice the change in my behavior. See, I was the uncle that was always on the floor rolling around and playing, but if was going to be carrying that was going to change. It probably was anyway because the nieces and nephews were all getting older and just about out of that stage.

Some others have been let into the circle of trust over the years and most of them also carry.

[AustinBoy]

As for not telling anyone, here is one of my posts from a couple of years ago.

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AB

[Oldgringo]

As for not telling anyone, here is one of my posts from a couple of years ago.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30987" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AB

For the record, I have neither a CHL badge nor a cape. I'm just a portly, older, steely eyed guy with an arthritic bad knee and back who might be packin' a gun. The people who know me, know me. The others...meh.