Board Liberals, where are you?

[VMI77]

All you libs here who have been castigating the rest of us for the last four years because we don't trust The One not to come after our guns, where are you now? Do you believe he will stop pending legislation or refuse to sign off on more gun control? Or are you taking the position that what's being suggested, like another AWB, is just common sense? Please tell us because after four years of hearing from you that our guns are safe I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to hear from you now.

[Jumping Frog]

... I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to hear from you now.

I have no desire to hear from them. I skip most of their messages anyway.

[SQLGeek]

The so-called pro gun folks of a left wing persuasion that I know are all busy handwringing and "soul searching" on whether or not we as a society really need ________ .

Fill in the blank from "assault rifles" to all semi-automatic weapons to more than x amount of guns.

[WinoVeritas]

Can't speak for my fellow libs, but I'm still here. Still not afraid of my government, or new or reinstated gun laws to surely come or Black Helicopters nor burying my guns in the backyard. Haven't castigated anyone in the past for their fears as I don't care to join the panic and paranoia - to each his own. Whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all. Regardless, the USA is still the greatest place to live in the world IMHO, warts and all,

I did buy a fire gun safe this week to further assure no crazy friend or relative uses my weapons to do something stupid.

[The Annoyed Man]

Can't speak for my fellow libs, but I'm still here. Still not afraid of my government, or new or reinstated gun laws to surely come or Black Helicopters nor burying my guns in the backyard. Haven't castigated anyone in the past for their fears as I don't care to join the panic and paranoia - to each his own. Whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all. Regardless, the USA is still the greatest place to live in the world IMHO, warts and all,

I did buy a fire gun safe this week to further assure no crazy friend or relative uses my weapons to do something stupid.

OK......but what if? It doesn't have to be labeled "liberal" or "conservative," or whatever.......WHAT IF your government does require you to turn in your guns. Will you comply? Will your compliance be dependent on whether a liberal or conservative government is in power at the moment?

Ultimately, is the right to own any kind of gun you want fungible in your view? Would you regard a total AWB with no sunset to be a "common sense measure?" As a self-proclaimed liberal, at what point are you willing to draw the line.

......or, are you kind of squishy on the whole thing and just along for the ride as long as it lasts?

And by the way, the AR15 has been the single most popular selling model of rifle for a number of years now. Where exactly do you get off with saying "whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all?" A total and retroactive ban on AR15s would affect literally millions of your fellow citizens. Do you even care about that? And if not, then why should someone like you be entrusted with the Constitution?

[BigGuy]

Can't speak for my fellow libs, but I'm still here. Still not afraid of my government, or new or reinstated gun laws to surely come or Black Helicopters nor burying my guns in the backyard. Haven't castigated anyone in the past for their fears as I don't care to join the panic and paranoia - to each his own. Whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all. Regardless, the USA is still the greatest place to live in the world IMHO, warts and all,

I did buy a fire gun safe this week to further assure no crazy friend or relative uses my weapons to do something stupid.

And I don't really see much point to this whole thread except to pick a silly and useless fight. It may make you feel better to vent your spleen, but at best you're only preaching to the choir. There is ZERO possibility of swaying anybody's opinion with this rhetoric. To many with a centric stand it will come across as vitriolic spume. And that is the only place anything will change. The far right is already with you and the far left never will be. Alienating the people amenable in their position is no way to advance the cause.

[Heartland Patriot]

Can't speak for my fellow libs, but I'm still here. Still not afraid of my government, or new or reinstated gun laws to surely come or Black Helicopters nor burying my guns in the backyard. Haven't castigated anyone in the past for their fears as I don't care to join the panic and paranoia - to each his own. Whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all. Regardless, the USA is still the greatest place to live in the world IMHO, warts and all,

I did buy a fire gun safe this week to further assure no crazy friend or relative uses my weapons to do something stupid.

And I don't really see much point to this whole thread except to pick a silly and useless fight. It may make you feel better to vent your spleen, but at best you're only preaching to the choir. There is ZERO possibility of swaying anybody's opinion with this rhetoric. To many with a centric stand it will come across as vitriolic spume. And that is the only place anything will change. The far right is already with you and the far left never will be. Alienating the people amenable in their position is no way to advance the cause.

Please explain to us how we are supposed to talk to get the support of those "in the center". I'm willing to hear what you have to say, seriously. I always hear calls for "sensible measures" and the like, but when it comes down to it, those "sensible measures" always end up as methods to take my property away, even though I have committed no crimes. As the man once said, "I'm all ears".

[The Annoyed Man]

Can't speak for my fellow libs, but I'm still here. Still not afraid of my government, or new or reinstated gun laws to surely come or Black Helicopters nor burying my guns in the backyard. Haven't castigated anyone in the past for their fears as I don't care to join the panic and paranoia - to each his own. Whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all. Regardless, the USA is still the greatest place to live in the world IMHO, warts and all,

I did buy a fire gun safe this week to further assure no crazy friend or relative uses my weapons to do something stupid.

And I don't really see much point to this whole thread except to pick a silly and useless fight. It may make you feel better to vent your spleen, but at best you're only preaching to the choir. There is ZERO possibility of swaying anybody's opinion with this rhetoric. To many with a centric stand it will come across as vitriolic spume. And that is the only place anything will change. The far right is already with you and the far left never will be. Alienating the people amenable in their position is no way to advance the cause.

I asked my last question of WinoVeritas respectfully, but I asked him some hard questions. Your answer is like his: avoid answering the hard question.

Why is that? I'm not calling you any names. I'm not questioning your character or lack thereof. I'm asking liberals hard questions. So far in this thread, two have posted, and both have refused to answer them. It is my opinion that this is because they know they can't answer them in a way that would make me feel good about entrusting them with good stewardship of the 2nd Amendment. I DON'T want to believe this to be the case. Please give me good reason not to, by answering the questions I asked WinoVeritas in a manner which will reassure those of us who are unabashedly conservative that, with regard to full-throated protection of the RKBA, you are on the same side as the the rest of us, and that you're not a patsy for the government, just because you happen to share some of the other political philosophy of this administration.

Conservatives really do want to know if liberals are with us or against us regarding the RKBA. It's a simple question. Can you answer it? WILL you answer it?

[VMI77]

It occurs to me that if these so called weapons of war have no place on American streets then they need to be taken away from the police as well. America is not a battlefield, nor has the Federal government officially designated it so. Let the police go back to revolvers and double barrel shotguns. If the weapons the libs want to ban are only for war zones, since the police don't fight wars, then there is no reason for them to have such weapons.

[VMI77]

Can't speak for my fellow libs, but I'm still here. Still not afraid of my government, or new or reinstated gun laws to surely come or Black Helicopters nor burying my guns in the backyard. Haven't castigated anyone in the past for their fears as I don't care to join the panic and paranoia - to each his own. Whatever is the impact or result of this latest crazy act on gun owners won't happen rapidly and doubt many will be affected, if at all. Regardless, the USA is still the greatest place to live in the world IMHO, warts and all,

I did buy a fire gun safe this week to further assure no crazy friend or relative uses my weapons to do something stupid.

And I don't really see much point to this whole thread except to pick a silly and useless fight. It may make you feel better to vent your spleen, but at best you're only preaching to the choir. There is ZERO possibility of swaying anybody's opinion with this rhetoric. To many with a centric stand it will come across as vitriolic spume. And that is the only place anything will change. The far right is already with you and the far left never will be. Alienating the people amenable in their position is no way to advance the cause.

By that standard, there is not much point to any political thread...yet the forum has a place to post "political issues." In reality, there is pretty much ONLY preaching to the choir on any issue. Very very few people base their positions on principle, much less fact. The gun control issue is proof of it. If your beliefs are principled then you support the entire Constitution and desire to see it enforced. You don't pick and choose which parts you like and which parts you don't, then run roughshod over the parts you don't like because you don't believe they affect you (and I'm using a rhetorical "you" here....I'm not addressing you in particular). You can certainly seek to have the 2nd Amendment eliminated via the legal Constitutional process but that is not what those agitating for more restrictions on our freedom are advocating. And the 2nd Amendment wasn't written so people could hunt deer and ducks and shoot skeet.

Also, very very few people base their beliefs on facts...which is again obvious when considering the gun control issue. The media is conducting a fact free all out propaganda campaign in support of those who seek to make an end run around the Constitution, and they're using the natural human instinct to protect children as a tool to get their way. The attack on gun rights is entirely based in emotion, has no basis in fact, no basis in reality, and no basis in actual human behavior --what is being proposed has no purpose or value except to make ignorant people feel good so the government can increase its power over us.

There is pretty much zero possibility of swaying anybody's opinion with rhetoric and the post isn't intended to do so. It asks those who have expressed opinions in the past to explain how those opinions have changed or remained the same given the current reality.

[Heartland Patriot]

It occurs to me that if these so called weapons of war have no place on American streets then they need to be taken away from the police as well. America is not a battlefield, nor has the Federal government officially designated it so. Let the police go back to revolvers and double barrel shotguns. If the weapons the libs want to ban are only for war zones, since the police don't fight wars, then there is no reason for them to have such weapons.

Indeed, and I'm sure law enforcement will do so just as soon as the thugs, goblins, gang-bangers and other miscreants do the same.

[Vol Texan]

It occurs to me that if these so called weapons of war have no place on American streets then they need to be taken away from the police as well. America is not a battlefield, nor has the Federal government officially designated it so. Let the police go back to revolvers and double barrel shotguns. If the weapons the libs want to ban are only for war zones, since the police don't fight wars, then there is no reason for them to have such weapons.

Gosh, I really wanted to stay on the sidelines for this one, but I respectfully differ with you. This link just shows one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

[Heartland Patriot]

It occurs to me that if these so called weapons of war have no place on American streets then they need to be taken away from the police as well. America is not a battlefield, nor has the Federal government officially designated it so. Let the police go back to revolvers and double barrel shotguns. If the weapons the libs want to ban are only for war zones, since the police don't fight wars, then there is no reason for them to have such weapons.

Gosh, I really wanted to stay on the sidelines for this one, but I respectfully differ with you. This link just shows one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

FYI, I think he might have been doing one of those rhetorical things.

[Vol Texan]

It occurs to me that if these so called weapons of war have no place on American streets then they need to be taken away from the police as well. America is not a battlefield, nor has the Federal government officially designated it so. Let the police go back to revolvers and double barrel shotguns. If the weapons the libs want to ban are only for war zones, since the police don't fight wars, then there is no reason for them to have such weapons.

Gosh, I really wanted to stay on the sidelines for this one, but I respectfully differ with you. This link just shows one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

FYI, I think he might have been doing one of those rhetorical things.

Thanks! Caught me snoozing there for a moment!

[mojo84]

The libs seem to like to spout out what we "need" and "don't need". Going their opens up many touchy subjects with unintended consequences.

Beyond a NEED to own them, it is our right to own them if we so choose as the 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed". If it is a need based society the liberals are wanting, most people in the country better start preparing to give up much of their posessions. Who How many actually NEED the size home they have, the number of bathrooms they have, the car they have that goes well above the speed limits, number of TV's they have, the number of computers they have, the number of children they have, how about all that money Pelosi has accumolated while in office, etc.? Where do the libs intend to draw the line?

How about the libs focus on addressing the challenges of dealing with the mentally ill people that have a propensity to commit such heinous acts.

I too would like to see TAM's questions answered straight up.