The Lesson of Wounded Knee

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baldeagle
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The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by baldeagle »

If you don't think our government is capable of killing its own people, perhaps you should learn about Wounded Knee.
http://ocdtrumpet.com/texas/a-lesson-to ... nded-knee/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Today, December 29, 2012 marks the 122nd Anniversary of the murder of 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota.

These 297 people, in their winter camp, were murdered by federal agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms “for their own safety and protection”. The slaughter began AFTER the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. When the final round had flown, of the 297 dead or dying, two thirds (200) were women and children.
If you say, oh, that was in the past. They would never do that now. How long ago was Waco?

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. Eternal.

The slaughter always begins after the majority have surrendered their weapons. Once the sheep have been disarmed, the wolves attack. America is no different from any other country. There are good men, and there are evil men. Our system of government protects us, but only if we refuse to disarm.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by longtooth »

Excellent post sir.

Some say David Koresh deserved it. I think he was a child molester & other crimes also.

He still deserved his day in court

If they will do it to him they will do it to a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyrtirian, (reason I aint one of them is I kant spell it) Penticost, Charasmatic, Lutheran, Catholic, Episcapalian.....
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by philip964 »

Interesting how history is overlooked, when the good guys don't look that good. I believe the women were just not killed.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by Redneck_Buddha »

I'd also ask us to remember Kent State 1971 and the internment of U.S. citizens of Japanese descent during WWII as stark reminders of U.S. government aggression against its people.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by RPB »

longtooth wrote:Excellent post sir.

Some say David Koresh deserved it. I think he was a child molester & other crimes also.

He still deserved his day in court

If they will do it to him they will do it to a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyrtirian, (reason I aint one of them is I kant spell it) Penticost, Charasmatic, Lutheran, Catholic, Episcapalian.....
Anyone recall seeing the Govt or News media holding up that full auto gun David Koresh was accused of manufacturing? Was it a wooden stock or an evil black one?
Where is it on display now?

He wasn't raided because it was a cult ... but because he allegedly did not pay the $200 tax ...same as reason Ruby Ridge home invasion by Govt.

The gun (if any exists) should be on display somewhere like Bonnie and Clyde's/Babyface Nelson etc old guns ... where is it?
No one ever showed any Waco compound gun $200 tax needed to be paid on that I know of.
Serious question, I have wondered if it was a converted sks or what?
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by longtooth »

philip964 wrote:Interesting how history is overlooked, when the good guys don't look that good. I believe the women were just not killed.
I have reminded folks that when the British quartered troop before the REvolution that we were fools if we thought or believed that when the men of the house were gone to shop or field that the women were treated like ladies.

I think you are probably right. I said last night that the women who might resist & are arrested will not enjoy the visit & can see them possibly being released afterward due to "Insufficent Evidence"

You know they will tell the story.
My thoughts anyway. No real facts besides HISTORY to back it up but my thoughts. AAAAAaaahh, reacon when the thought police will be knockin. :txflag:
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by The Annoyed Man »

RPB wrote:
longtooth wrote:Excellent post sir.

Some say David Koresh deserved it. I think he was a child molester & other crimes also.

He still deserved his day in court

If they will do it to him they will do it to a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyrtirian, (reason I aint one of them is I kant spell it) Penticost, Charasmatic, Lutheran, Catholic, Episcapalian.....
Anyone recall seeing the Govt or News media holding up that full auto gun David Koresh was accused of manufacturing? Was it a wooden stock or an evil black one?
Where is it on display now?

He wasn't raided because it was a cult ... but because he allegedly did not pay the $200 tax ...same as reason Ruby Ridge home invasion by Govt.

The gun (if any exists) should be on display somewhere like Bonnie and Clyde's/Babyface Nelson etc old guns ... where is it?
No one ever showed any Waco compound gun $200 tax needed to be paid on that I know of.
Serious question, I have wondered if it was a converted sks or what?
I recall at the time BATF claiming that Koresh had a .50 caliber machine gun. Turned out to be a Barret "Light .50" semiautomatic rifle........perfectly legal. The Los Angeles times reported in horrified tones at the time that it fired a bullet 1/2" in diameter by 5" long. What would that weigh.......about 3,500 grains or so?
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by Redneck_Buddha »

AndyC wrote:You all ever heard of the Bonus Army incident in DC after WW1 when vets were attacked by the gov't?
Yes...and Ruby Ridge. The longer we think, the more we can come up with I suspect.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by jimlongley »

From the history of the 9th Cavalry. The Captain Loud mentioned below was commanding a wagon train as part of an expedition into the Pine Ridge Agency, he is my great grandfather. The wagon train, which had been dispatched some time before, was carrying supplies for the agency (and its residents) and there were numerous raids against troops throughout the Dakotas in that time frame. In a letter to his wife about Wounded Knee, which was compiled and published by my cousin as ""Letters from the Field: John Sylvanus Loud and the Pine Ridge Campaign of 1890-1891" by Fred Erisman. Patricia L. Erisman" my great grandfather mentioned the ferocity of the 7th Cavalry troops eveident in the field, as the 9th arrived a day after the massacre and the depredations were quite obvious. He did not then, nor in his testimony about the events as he knew them in a later court of inquiry, mention any crimes against women.

Although it is fair to portray this as an attempt by the government to disarm a specific portion of the populace, it is not really fair to portray it as a specific policy of the government. Yes the troops were sent there to disarm the indians, partly because of the ongoing raids which were probably not being conducted by the internees at Wounded Knee, but the massacre rests solely on the "Gallant 7th" and its troopers, and there was some evidence that some of the ones who were injured by "friendly fire" were due to their efforts to stop the crime.


"1890

December 30, Troop D, under Captain Loud, was attacked while escorting a wagon train near Pine Ridge Agency, South Dakota, losing one man killed. Later in the same day Troops D, F, I and K, under Major Henry, were engaged near the Drexel Mission, South Dakota, no casualties.

In the summer of 1885 the regiment was moved to the Department of the Platte, where it enjoyed a well-earned rest after the many scouts and campaigns of the preceding eighteen years. The only campaign worthy of mention is that of 1890-91, during the uprising of the Sioux, when the regiment was the first in the field in November, and the last to leave late in the following March, after spending the winter, the latter part of which was terrible in its severity, under canvas. The 9th was sent to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation after the 7th Cavalry Regiment’s engagement on Wounded Knee Creak. The duty was difficult since the men of the 7th seemed intent on taking their revenge for the Sioux’s devastating victory on the Little Bighorn River in 1876."
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by mamabearCali »

History is repleat with examples of gov't abuse and govt assaults on their own. This world is not a safe place. God did not give me claws or large teeth to defend my own. He did however give me a brain to know to get a weapon to defend myself. A disarmed human being is remarkably easy to kill, don't be that human being.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by baldeagle »

jimlongley wrote:Although it is fair to portray this as an attempt by the government to disarm a specific portion of the populace, it is not really fair to portray it as a specific policy of the government. Yes the troops were sent there to disarm the indians, partly because of the ongoing raids which were probably not being conducted by the internees at Wounded Knee, but the massacre rests solely on the "Gallant 7th" and its troopers, and there was some evidence that some of the ones who were injured by "friendly fire" were due to their efforts to stop the crime.
Jim, you are correct to point out that the massacre was not official government policy. However, one must also note that the government did nothing to punish those who engaged in atrocities. It's also important to note that some men who worked for the government saw nothing wrong with slaughtering helpless people simply because they were of a class that was despised by many.

The same is true more recently of Ruby Ridge and Waco, and we would do well to remember that when public opinion is turned against you, government actions, up to and including murder, are condoned by many. The more recent booggy men are white people, rich people and those who "cling to their guns and religion". It's not outside the realm of possibility, given the lessons of history, that atrocities against those now-despised classes could be condoned or overlooked by many were they to happen in the future.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by VMI77 »

baldeagle wrote:If you don't think our government is capable of killing its own people, perhaps you should learn about Wounded Knee.
http://ocdtrumpet.com/texas/a-lesson-to ... nded-knee/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Today, December 29, 2012 marks the 122nd Anniversary of the murder of 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota.

These 297 people, in their winter camp, were murdered by federal agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms “for their own safety and protection”. The slaughter began AFTER the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. When the final round had flown, of the 297 dead or dying, two thirds (200) were women and children.
If you say, oh, that was in the past. They would never do that now. How long ago was Waco?

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. Eternal.

The slaughter always begins after the majority have surrendered their weapons. Once the sheep have been disarmed, the wolves attack. America is no different from any other country. There are good men, and there are evil men. Our system of government protects us, but only if we refuse to disarm.

297.....in the scheme of things, that's nothing. How about this little tactic of law enforcement?http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... s_war.html
Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people.

Smaller scale, but even more depraved indifference: http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/23/t ... n-america/

Only one KNOWN death, but the CIA destroyed most of the records of the program, so no one really knows.
So, incredibly, it decided to slip acid secretly to Americans — at the beach, in city bars, at restaurants. For a decade, the CIA conducted completely uncontrolled tests in which they drugged people unknowingly, then followed and watched them without intervening. In some cases, the agency used the drug to perform interrogations, but these procedures were conducted so inconsistently that they proved equally useless in providing useful data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
One 1955 MKUltra document gives an indication of the size and range of the effort; this document refers to the study of an assortment of mind-altering substances described as follows:

Substances which will promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be discredited in public.
Substances which increase the efficiency of mentation and perception.
Materials which will cause the victim to age faster/slower in maturity.
Materials which will promote the intoxicating effect of alcohol.
Materials which will produce the signs and symptoms of recognized diseases in a reversible way so that they may be used for malingering, etc.
Materials will cause temporary/permanent brain damage and loss of memory.
Substances which will enhance the ability of individuals to withstand privation, torture and coercion during interrogation and so-called "brain-washing".
Materials and physical methods which will produce amnesia for events preceding and during their use.
Physical methods of producing shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use.
Substances which produce physical disablement such as paralysis of the legs, acute anemia, etc.
Substances which will produce a chemical that can cause blisters.
Substances which alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon another person is enhanced.
A material which will cause mental confusion of such a type that the individual under its influence will find it difficult to maintain a fabrication under questioning.
Substances which will lower the ambition and general working efficiency of men when administered in undetectable amounts.
Substances which promote weakness or distortion of the eyesight or hearing faculties, preferably without permanent effects.
A knockout pill which can surreptitiously be administered in drinks, food, cigarettes, as an aerosol, etc., which will be safe to use, provide a maximum of amnesia, and be suitable for use by agent types on an ad hoc basis.
A material which can be surreptitiously administered by the above routes and which in very small amounts will make it impossible for a person to perform physical activity
Other despicable acts of our government (and this is just the stuff we know about): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_ ... experiment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
During World War II, 250 of the subject men registered for the draft. These men were consequently diagnosed as having syphilis at military induction centers and ordered to obtain treatment for syphilis before they could be taken into the armed services.[15]

PHS researchers attempted to prevent them from getting treatment, thus depriving them of chances for a cure. A PHS representative was quoted at the time as saying: "So far, we are keeping the known positive patients from getting treatment."[15] Despite this, 96% of the 90 original test subjects reexamined in 1963 had received either arsenical or penicillin treatments from another health provider.[16]

By 1947 penicillin had become standard therapy for syphilis. The US government sponsored several public health programs to form "rapid treatment centers" to eradicate the disease. When campaigns to eradicate venereal disease came to Macon County, study researchers prevented their patients from participating.[15]

By the end of the study in 1972, only 74 of the test subjects were alive. Of the original 399 men, 28 had died of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected and 19 of their children were born with congenital syphilis.
And this....note, American DOCTORS did this, so how hard is it to conceive of ordinary government employees showing equal disregard for us peasants?
In October 2010 it was revealed that in Guatemala, Public Health Service doctors went even further. It was reported that from 1946 to 1948, American doctors deliberately infected prisoners, soldiers, and patients in a mental hospital with syphilis and, in some cases, gonorrhea, with the cooperation of some Guatemalan health ministries and officials. A total of 696 men and women were exposed to syphilis without the informed consent of the subjects. When the subjects contracted the disease they were given antibiotics though it is unclear if all infected parties were cured.
There's a lot more out there, known, if you look for it, and no doubt a lot more that remains unknown. And for all those who think "conspiracies" can't happen because someone would rat them out, note, the Tuskegee experimentation went on for 40 years before it was ratted out, and lot's of people knew about it --including African Americans. MKUltra lasted for 20 years, and no one ratted it out --it was discovered during a general investigation by Congress.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by JP171 »

longtooth wrote:Excellent post sir.

Some say David Koresh deserved it. I think he was a child molester & other crimes also.

He still deserved his day in court

If they will do it to him they will do it to a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyrtirian, (reason I aint one of them is I kant spell it) Penticost, Charasmatic, Lutheran, Catholic, Episcapalian.....

yes David Koresh did deserve his day in court, unfortunatly he committed suicide before he got there along with murdering his own people. yea I have heard all the bull stories about all the stuff about the army went in and burned it and its all hogwash, so is ruby ridge. you do something illegal you go to jail, not retreat to your property in the mountains and continue a belligerant campaign to avoid jail, nor do you have your son point a weapon at an LEO and expect nothing to happen.
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Re: The Lesson of Wounded Knee

Post by Purplehood »

jimlongley wrote:From the history of the 9th Cavalry. The Captain Loud mentioned below was commanding a wagon train as part of an expedition into the Pine Ridge Agency, he is my great grandfather. The wagon train, which had been dispatched some time before, was carrying supplies for the agency (and its residents) and there were numerous raids against troops throughout the Dakotas in that time frame. In a letter to his wife about Wounded Knee, which was compiled and published by my cousin as ""Letters from the Field: John Sylvanus Loud and the Pine Ridge Campaign of 1890-1891" by Fred Erisman. Patricia L. Erisman" my great grandfather mentioned the ferocity of the 7th Cavalry troops eveident in the field, as the 9th arrived a day after the massacre and the depredations were quite obvious. He did not then, nor in his testimony about the events as he knew them in a later court of inquiry, mention any crimes against women.

Although it is fair to portray this as an attempt by the government to disarm a specific portion of the populace, it is not really fair to portray it as a specific policy of the government. Yes the troops were sent there to disarm the indians, partly because of the ongoing raids which were probably not being conducted by the internees at Wounded Knee, but the massacre rests solely on the "Gallant 7th" and its troopers, and there was some evidence that some of the ones who were injured by "friendly fire" were due to their efforts to stop the crime.


"1890

December 30, Troop D, under Captain Loud, was attacked while escorting a wagon train near Pine Ridge Agency, South Dakota, losing one man killed. Later in the same day Troops D, F, I and K, under Major Henry, were engaged near the Drexel Mission, South Dakota, no casualties.

In the summer of 1885 the regiment was moved to the Department of the Platte, where it enjoyed a well-earned rest after the many scouts and campaigns of the preceding eighteen years. The only campaign worthy of mention is that of 1890-91, during the uprising of the Sioux, when the regiment was the first in the field in November, and the last to leave late in the following March, after spending the winter, the latter part of which was terrible in its severity, under canvas. The 9th was sent to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation after the 7th Cavalry Regiment’s engagement on Wounded Knee Creak. The duty was difficult since the men of the 7th seemed intent on taking their revenge for the Sioux’s devastating victory on the Little Bighorn River in 1876."
Wow, small world.

Family-legend on my Mother's side has it that an ancestor was a Teamster for the 7th Cavalry. As I understand it, the teamsters knew from their scouts what was coming and had already departed the general vicinity of Custer and his troops the day before.

Sorry to get off-topic. :)
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