City building (library) question

[cprems]

Our local library is posted with a "Firearms are prohibited" sticker. I know that city owned property cannot be posted with a 30.06 sign (provided that there are no Courts or other areas that are prohibited)

I was hesitant to carry past it but since my son loves the library and it wasn't properly posted, I carried anyway.

My question is this. Can you be asked to leave the premises when the the law states it cannot be posted? What are the legal ramifications?

If I were to be asked, I'd comply and file a complaint with the appropriate authorities.

What say you all?

[Wes]

They can ask you to do anything, but if its concealed who will know? Nothing gives them the right to do anything but it doesn't mean they wouldn't try if they did know. I'd carry on just like you did.

[cprems]

They can ask you to do anything, but if its concealed who will know? Nothing gives them the right to do anything but it doesn't mean they wouldn't try if they did know. I'd carry on just like you did.

But is it legal for them to ask a CHL holder to leave? Since the property is not barred under Texas law, does a verbal "you need to leave" apply? Can they even ask you to leave and come back unarmed?

Are there any legal ramifications (if one was inclined) to ignore the request?

I think this would make an interesting discussion. maybe Mr. Cotton could weigh in?

[nightmare69]

They can ask you to do anything, but if its concealed who will know? Nothing gives them the right to do anything but it doesn't mean they wouldn't try if they did know. I'd carry on just like you did.

But is it legal for them to ask a CHL holder to leave? Since the property is not barred under Texas law, does a verbal "you need to leave" apply? Can they even ask you to leave and come back unarmed?

Are there any legal ramifications (if one was inclined) to ignore the request?

I think this would make an interesting discussion. maybe Mr. Cotton could weigh in?

They can tell you to leave cause they dont like the color of your hair. You dont need a reason to tell someone to leave at your home and same goes just about everywhere.

[jimlongley]

They can ask you to do anything, but if its concealed who will know? Nothing gives them the right to do anything but it doesn't mean they wouldn't try if they did know. I'd carry on just like you did.

But is it legal for them to ask a CHL holder to leave? Since the property is not barred under Texas law, does a verbal "you need to leave" apply? Can they even ask you to leave and come back unarmed?

Are there any legal ramifications (if one was inclined) to ignore the request?

I think this would make an interesting discussion. maybe Mr. Cotton could weigh in?

I think it is "legal" for them to ask you to leave, but not enforceable. It's just as legal for you to be there, if not more so.

[RPBrown]

What everyone is stating here is that it is legal for them to ask you to leave just as it would be legal to ask you to change the color of your hair. Just because they ask does not mean you are required to comply. If it is a city owned building they cannot enforce a 30.06 or any other non compliant no gun sign.

[jayinsat]

Questions like this used to worry me. I was in the Live Oak library last month. Not on school property or courthouse, etc. They had an old 30.06 sign that is no longer compliant. I carried right past it. The key is, concealed means concealed. If you are outed, you are not doing your part. They won't know unless you let them know!

That said, if you need to use it in self-defense, was it worth your life? I vote yes. Even if it were not posted at all, a self defense shooting, as we all well know, will likely result in a costly legal battle. Is it worth your life?

My jujitsu teacher used to always say: "I'd rather be judged by 12 than buried by 6."

[The Annoyed Man]

What everyone is stating here is that it is legal for them to ask you to leave just as it would be legal to ask you to change the color of your hair. Just because they ask does not mean you are required to comply. If it is a city owned building they cannot enforce a 30.06 or any other non compliant no gun sign.

Maybe not legal to ask if you haven't actually done something wrong, but when you refuse to leave after being asked, the moral cripple who does the asking can then call the local PD to have you removed for "disturbing the peace," and they will likely be only too happy to comply. He or she can and likely will simply mischaracterize the nature of your response to the arriving officers, and guess whom they are more likely to believe? Who called first?

Sorry....that's just the way it is, and in my experience, librarians as a class of people are well-educated twits with little regard for that which extends past the liberal politics with which they tend to overwhelmingly agree. It may not be fair to characterize them individually that way, because certainly there are individual librarians whom the above does not accurately describe. But as a general class of people, it does accurately describe them, and so I would expect the same kinds of reactions to my gun from them as I would expect from most school administrators, for instance.

To the arriving officers, the librarian is as much a part of the established authority as they are themselves, and that authority is generally not to be challenged, and is always above reproach. On the other hand, you're just some guy who wandered in off the street with a poorly concealed gun.

The lesson? "Concealed" means "concealed." If I am careless, what happens next is on me because I should have known all of the above. Doesn't make it right, but that's just the reality of it.

[bdickens]

Outside of certain very narrowly statutorily defined locations, it is not lawful to prevent CHLs from carrying on city or state owned property in Texas.


All the answers you need are in this very informative little booklet:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetfo ... chl-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Pecos]

I gree with TAM. Here's what I would do. I would go in concealed. If for some reason I was descovered & asked to leave I would show them My CHL & then I would leave as asked.
Another thing I would do is just dont bring my gun in. I wouldnt want to create a scene & possably have LEOs involved just to prove im right.
Thats just me.
Another think I would conseder if discovered by staff is ask If I can remove the gun & come back in. I would then lock it in my trunk.These suggestions are just saying what I would do. NOT saying it's the right think to do.

[Deltaboy]

Just keep it covered and got to the Library shoot my city Library got the city PD HQ in the same building.

[MotherBear]

I take my kids to the library once or twice a week. These days, I carry when I do because I carry everywhere I can. There are no signs at all, and nothing anywhere to indicate guns would be unwelcome. I get a little nervous because I'm new to carrying and with my small kids I'm inevitably lifting, reaching, bending over, and any other contortion you can think of. We go for story time, which is often upwards of 60 kids and their parents. So far, no one has said anything and I haven't noticed any suspicious looks. Sure makes you feel self-conscious when you're new to carrying, but I figure I'll get used to it and then I'll be fine anywhere. ;) We've also been regulars for quite a while, so a lot of the parents recognize us or know us, and the librarians know us by name. I figure that ought to buy me a second thought before they panic and call the police if somehow someone does see or recognize a gun.

[RogueUSMC]

...We've also been regulars for quite a while, so a lot of the parents recognize us or know us, and the librarians know us by name. I figure that ought to buy me a second thought before they panic and call the police if somehow someone does see or recognize a gun.

This will have a side effect of showing gun owners in a different light to those that don't travel in circles that contain gun owners...

[MotherBear]

...We've also been regulars for quite a while, so a lot of the parents recognize us or know us, and the librarians know us by name. I figure that ought to buy me a second thought before they panic and call the police if somehow someone does see or recognize a gun.

This will have a side effect of showing gun owners in a different light to those that don't travel in circles that contain gun owners...

IF they ever actually see the gun, anyway. ;) Although, my boys are very interested in guns and the 5yo especially has the vocabulary to make it pretty clear he's well educated about them for his age. He talks a lot about the four rules (and practices them when shooting Nerf guns with my husband or even pretending to shoot stick guns in the backyard or at the park). I don't advertise my CHL status, but I often invite other women for ladies' night at the range. Not many actually come, but one of my friends recently went from never-touched-a-gun to this-is-awesome-when-can-we-come-again in the course of one evening.

[RogueUSMC]

A good example will go further than a debate any day...that goes for more than just guns...