Ok, I need to start reloading.

[nitrogen]

After spending $65 on .223 this weekend, I think I finally need to start reloading.

I read through this thread:
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?t=6551
And my eyes bugged out of my head with incomprehension.

Anyone have a few good things I can look at to get started? Assuming i'm a complete reloading noob? (By "complete" I mean, I know reloading is making your own ammo from spent brass, and that's ALL I know.)

[jhutto]

I am not sure if this will help, but here is a brief rundown. Perhaps it will get you a little further down the road.
If not? well, at least I did try to help.



Reloading consists of several steps which are cyclical.


I Planning..

1. decide what round you will load.
2. Decide what your goals are for the specific load.
3. Reserch what others have done, reloading manuals etc.
4. Reserch prices availability and other factors.
5. Plan your attack. Make sure you understand the process, some reloading manuals have a brief explanation of the processes involved, Additionally you will find many pages on the NET that may help you piece together the process as a whole. Obviously some typ of class or a friend who already reloads would be invaluable.
6.Ensure a system of Identification and recording is in place, so that initial data and comments can be linked to later results. Document Everything.

II loading
1.Cleaning the old brass
2. Re-forming, or reshaping the brass.
3. Re-priming the brass
4. refilling the brass with gunpowder
5. Placing a new projectile in the brass.
6.(depending on the use) Cripping the brass.
7. Document everything.

III Testing/ (Read shooting)
Chronographs, targets etc can give you an accurate real world evaluation of your loads. Document everything.

IV Recording.
Document everything.

The steps of loading and their tools: (II)
There are a variety of tools that can make the process possible. There are a few which can make it more exact, or easier.

#1 often uses tools like vibratory and nonvibratory tumblers. (like rock polishers) to physicly clean the brass. Depending on how far you want to go there is also ,Primer pocket brushes, neck cleaning brushes, flash hole brushes etc.

#2 often uses a specially made DIE in a PRESS. this squeezes the brass back into the correct shape. #2 also somtimes uses case trimmers to trim the now streached brass to the proper length. Depending on how far you want to go on this, there are neck turning tools, different dies, electric trimmers etc. The presses also vary from small to big single stage (one at a time) to automatic progressive machines multiple at a time (assembly lie etc.) you will need a good dial calaper to measure the cases to ensure accuracy. Therew are other measuring tools as well. Case runout, case gages etc. can all assist in this step.

#3 can be accomplished with a hand priming tool, or perhaps your press has a built in tool for this. Also you generally need a primer flip tray to get the primers the right side up fastest.

#4 This can be accomplishe many way's. for sure you will need an accurate scale. Some buy digital, some tripple beam etc. Some scales have built in despensing mechinisms. SOme presses have a POWDER MEASURE (a mechanical volume measurer) that quickly albeit less accuratly despenses the "correct" amount of powder. Powder measures can also be purchaced seperate from a press. obviously the ammount of powder is VERY important.

#5. Placing the projectile in the brass is done with a press and a die. The debth of the projectile is important with regard to accuracy and the pressures of the round. You will need a good dial caliper to ensure the seating is correct. there are also tools to measure the length of a round.
THe length of your round should be previously determined in the planning process. THis length is sometimes dependent on the lenght of the throat, the length of the magazine, or the minimum length due to pressures.

#6. Crimping is done with a press and die, Crimping can be important in the accuracy of a round.

#7. Document everything. All the steps involved in this circular process are important to the safty and accuracy of a round. Please ensure everyhting is documented.

[tomneal]

I don't really shoot that much .223 but I am considering reloading.
I have reloaded at least 50,000 rounds of pistol ammo on my Dillon 650
So I have most of the little things lying around. Just guessing at $100 to buy a set of dies and another tool head for .223

One other thought. Most shooters don’t save money on reloading. They just shoot more.


Brass
$88.99 per 1000 processed brass (cleaned, trimmed, reamed) http://secure.cartsvr.net/catalogs/cata ... prevnext=1

Bullets
$61.99 per 1000 http://www.precisionreloading.com .22 Cal 55 FMJ-BT W/C

Primers
$20.00 per 1000 (estimated)

Powder
$87.50 Estimated 3.5 lbs powder for $25 per pound

-vs-

Price of Factory ammo
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=318515

$350 per 1000 delivered

[tomneal]

so...
why is the price of .223 going up?


The military went from
426 million rounds in 2001 to 1.5 billion rounds in 2006
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs. ... 3/-1/ENT06

[BobCat]

Nitrogen,

Very good info / advice above. All I can add is to get a reloading manual - maybe an old Speer manual or the like - and read about the reloading process. Once the steps - resize/deprime, primer seat, powder charge, bullet seat, and crimp (optional) - are clear, you can think about cleaning brass (tumbler) and whether you want to prime on the press or individually, by hand. On a progressive press you typically prime on the press.

I make this distinction since I load all my pistol ammo on old Dillon 450 progressive presses, and all my match .223 on a single-stage RCBS Rockchucker (and cheap Lee for seating). If you just want a lot of good, reliable .223 you can load it on a progressive. If you are neurotic about having everything "perfect" you might want a single-stage press, especially to start out on.

Reloading is fun, tedious, relaxing, time-consuming, exacting, and rewarding. You will have fun and you will be able to tailor your loads to your rifle and each application - distance, target (paper or meat), and so forth.

And if you find you do not like it, you will have learned something, and can sell the equipment for somewhere around what you paid for it.

If you were near Houston I would ask you over to see the process in detail. Someone who lives near you undoubtedly will do so - might have already done so while I hunt-and-peck on this keyboard.

Have fun!

Regards,
Andrew

[jwp]

Getting somebody to teach you is probably the best way. However, having a couple of books in addition to that is a good idea. A very good basic one - the closest thing to "Reloading for Dummies" I've seen - is "The ABC's of Reloading - 7th Edition" edited by Bill Chevalier. About $15 new at Amazon. Lots of explanation about powders and bullet types, lots of pictures, lots of careful step-by-step pictures and explanations of what you need to accomplish and why. All in all, quite a nice book.

Reloading really isn't difficult - you just need to know exactly what steps you need to take, and to be very painstaking in taking them.

[stroo]

Lots of good advice above. When you get a press, you want to consider how much you are going to reload, how much you are willing to spend, and whether you are really committed or just trying it out.

If you aren't committed, aren't going to do that much reloading, say under 4,000 rounds a year, or can't spend very much, look at Lee presses, dies and other equipment. Lee equipment works pretty well and is pretty inexpensive. I think Lee's Anniversary kit which give you 90% of the equipment you need is about $80 at Midway.

If you are going to reload more than that, have a open checkbook and/or are committed to reloading you probably want to look at Dillon. I haven't used one but from everything I've read, they seem to be top of the line.

[nitrogen]

Lots of good advice above. When you get a press, you want to consider how much you are going to reload, how much you are willing to spend, and whether you are really committed or just trying it out.

If you aren't committed, aren't going to do that much reloading, say under 4,000 rounds a year, or can't spend very much, look at Lee presses, dies and other equipment. Lee equipment works pretty well and is pretty inexpensive. I think Lee's Anniversary kit which give you 90% of the equipment you need is about $80 at Midway.

If you are going to reload more than that, have a open checkbook and/or are committed to reloading you probably want to look at Dillon. I haven't used one but from everything I've read, they seem to be top of the line.

Would you say the Lee presses are good for someone just interesting in shooting, not necessarily looking at match grade stuff?

What exactly is the Dillion set capable of, that the cheaper Lee set isn't?

[tomneal]

My Dillion 650 is set up to load .40 S&W right now.

Primers, Brass, and Powder are all loaded up.

I can load 100 rounds in about 10 minutes.

These are rounds ready to load into magazines for a weekend match.

If it were a big match, I would check them in a case gage.

[Jeremae]

Lee presses are great if you are on a budget.

There are 3 types of presses:

1. Single Stage

This press uses a ram to lift a cartridge up into a single die. To complete the next function (size/decap, bell/load powder charge, seat bullet, crimp)you need to remove the die and mount the next you need. A Lot of people will advise a beginner to start with a single stage but I believe it is more useful for someone who wants highly accurate rounds. I learned to reload on a single stage press way back in early 70s.

At the low end of price is the Lee Loader that is hand held. Many accuracy shooters like presses by RCBS.

2. Turret

This press use a ram to lift a cartridge up to a tool head that contains multiple dies. After each stroke the tool head is advanced to the next die station. This allows you to assemble a complete cartridge using 4 (or 5) strokes of the handle without changing die setups. This is the press I would advise a beginner to use as it can be used as a single stage just by disabling the indexing of the head.

I started with the Lee Deluxe reloading kit that includes a Turret press and everything you need except a set of dies for the caliber you want to load and a way to clean brass. I bought the Lee Deluxe (Carbide) 45 acp dies and a tumbler and I was loading ammo for about $180 (not counting supplies) I can load around 100 rounds an hour with this setup. If you are on a budget and only shoot say 1000 rounds a month this setup is great.

3. Progressive

This press uses a ram to lift a shell plate that holds multiple cartridges to a multiple die tool head. It allows you to assemble a cartidge for every stoke of the handle so it is the fastest press.

Again Lee makes the low cost progressive press. If you want the Cadillac of progressive presses you go with Dillon. I am currently saving up to buy a Dillon 650b. For more information about the Dillon Progressive presses you should check out Brian Enos's website.

One point on Dies. Almost all presses will use any die. Even though Lee is the Low Cost press manufacturer, their Dies, Particularly the Carbide Sizing/Decapper and Factor Crimp Die are some of the best made.

[stroo]

I load mostly handgun rounds, 9 mm, 45 acp and 44 special. I mainly load for shooting and don't do any matchgrade stuff. I have a hand press, which is portable and which I haven't used a lot yet, a single stage which I use primarily now for 30-30 and 7.5 mm Swiss and a turret, which I use for the handgun rounds. I probably load under 4000 rounds a year. At that level, Lee works very well. Lee also has the least expensive presses. The main reason I started with Lee was that I wasn't sure I would enjoy reloading and didn't want to put a lot of money in it. My first buy was an Anniversary set with the single stage press. As I progressed, I realized I really enjoyed it but was never going to or need to produce a lot of ammo. So I purchased the other Lee presses because for my needs they seemed to be the most cost effective.

I am kind of slow so I don't get the production others do. I can do maybe 20 rifle rounds an hour on my single stage and about 100 handgun rounds an hour on my turret. That gives me more than enough ammo for my shooting needs.

Having said that, I could probably produce matchgrade ammo on the single stage, but doubt that I could with the turret. It is just too loose. I have never used a Dillon but from looking at them and reading about them, as Jeremae said, they seem to be the Cadillac of presses. They seem to be tighter and better constructed. Of course for what they cost, they should be. If you wanted to produce a lot of ammo or a lot of match grade ammo, a Dillon is the better choice. There are also alot of intermediate priced presses. Having never really looked seriously at Hornady, RCBS or the others, I really don't have any opinion on them.

Also as Jeremae said, the Lee dies for my money work very well. I have RCBS dies for my 7.5 Swiss rounds which cost about twice what the Lee dies do and don't work any better as far as I can tell.

The other factor I considered was my age. I am over 50. If I was in my 30s and looking at using a press for my lifetime I probably would spent the money and bought a Dillon rather than the Lee turret. It would probably out last you. At my age, I figure I can buy two or three Lees if they break for much less than what one Dillon would cost. So the Lees should last for my lifetime.

Again echoing Jeremae, if I had to start over, I probably would start with the Lee turret. It doesn't cost much more than the single stage, you can use it as a single stage to start out and it saves you the time of installing and uninstalling the four dies that I use for handgun rounds. Now I have a disk for each set of dies and to change from 9mm to 45 or 44 just means taking disk with 9 mm dies out and replacing it with the disk with the 45 or 44 dies.

[BobCat]

Nitrogen,

At the risk of offending people (which does not bother me) I will say that Lee equipment looks and feels cheap and flimsy. It works just fine and, while it may not be as tight or durable as more expensive equipment, I've used certain Lee tools for a long time with no breakage and no problems.

I have an old Lee turret (three-hole) that I replaced with an old Dillon 450 (predecessor to the 550). I will sell it to you for 1/2 whatever they cost new, with a guarantee to buy it back for the same price if you don't like it. Once you start reloading you will just get deeper into it. Look on ebay too - sometimes there are deals.

My main presses for pistol ammo are Dillon 450s. Main press for resize/deprime for rifle is an RCBS Rockchucker. I bullet seat on a Lee single-stage. You will, over time, wind up with lots of neat tools you enjoy using. Start cheap and simple. You will know what you "want next" soon enough.

Regards,
Andrew

Edited to add: You can use the turret as a single stage, but might be better off with a real single stage for rifle, to start with.

[Venus Pax]

I've gotten a lot of information from this one thread. I appreciate the posts.

[Jeremae]

If you buy BobCat's three hole turret, you can upgrade it to a four hole for about $15 to $20.

I also have different turret heads for each caliber I load and it takes less than a minute to change calibers.

While I lust after and am saving for a Dillon progressive, if the 3 members of my family who want to start shooting IDPA get going before I have the money saved up, I may buy the Lee Progressive press to load 9mms.

VP I seem to remember you saying your father used to/currently reloads, but if that isn't true or he is too far away I would be glad to help you get set up with any gear you decide to buy.

I have often heard people say they would like to reload but have no place to do it where they live. This just isn't true. I know a man who lives in an apartment with 3 small children who reloads. He mounted his Lee turret on a boad that can be C-clamped to a table, counter or any other flat surface strong enough to support the forces involved and all his equipment and supplies are kept in a single trunk he locks up when not actually reloading. He even has brought it with him to the woods during hunting trips.

[BobCat]

Midway (midwayusa.com) has Lee turret press (4-hole) on sale for ~$55 by itself, or ~90 for the kit with powder measure and scale. Not to be pushing Lee too hard, but it is inexpensive, functional equipment.

Jeremae is absolutely correct about bolting the press to a piece of plywood, C-clamping it to the bench to work, and putting it all away when not in use. My presses are all on small squares of 1-1/8" flooring plywood - my bench is not big enough to keep everything set up. Can't overstate the utility of doing it as Jeremae says.

You may not wish to get into yet another "expensive hobby" but, while you may not save any money reloading, you will have more ammo to shoot for the same cash outlay.

Regards,
Andrew