"Combat Scoring" for Cert of Proficiency

[kg5ie]

Called Texas Commission on Law Enforcement and got some help finding the latest "Retired Federal or Out-of-State Officer Firearms Certificate. On the proficiency section it gives 6 requirements for the proficiency conditions. #2 is "Combat Scoring". The person I talked to on the phone could not point me to the definition of that, but did say it had to "meet or exceed" the requirements of Commission Rule 218.9 and that I should look that up. I did, but there it makes no reference to "combat scoring".

Could someone please share an acceptable course of fire and scoring criteria that meets the intent of OC 1701.357 and CR 218.9?


Thanks for your response.

[dogflight]

In a gunfight, any center-body-mass hit counts big. So, in "Combat Scoring", maximum points come from such hits (eg: inside the 8 ring) as opposed to scoring for marksmanship where max points only come in the X ring.

In October of 2013 TCOLE (now TCLEOSE) told me that "combat scoring" refers to standard B27 scoring - ie: the little target in the upper-left corner of the B27, or more simply: just like DPS does it for CHL qualification.

A few minutes ago, I called TCLEOSE and was told that no one there is sure what it means, but that DPS (CHL) scoring is fine. They appreciated my call pointing it out and would see if they could do something to better define it.

[kg5ie]

In a gunfight, any center-body-mass hit counts big. So, in "Combat Scoring", maximum points come from such hits (eg: inside the 8 ring) as opposed to scoring for marksmanship where max points only come in the X ring.

In October of 2013 TCOLE (now TCLEOSE) told me that "combat scoring" refers to standard B27 scoring - ie: the little target in the upper-left corner of the B27, or more simply: just like DPS does it for CHL qualification.

A few minutes ago, I called TCLEOSE and was told that no one there is sure what it means, but that DPS (CHL) scoring is fine. They appreciated my call pointing it out and would see if they could do something to better define it.

Thanks for the reply. They told me basically the same thing....they don't know what it means, but went on to say it must meet the intent of the rule.

It does say that the progression must start at "point blank range" or 1.5 yds. Draw and fire bent elbow. Then progressing back. This from the TCoLE handbook:

The minimum standards for the annual firearms proficiency course of fire shall be:
(1) handguns ‐ a minimum of 50 rounds, including at least five rounds of ammunition, fired at ranges from point‐blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload;

I guess I'll take the current CHL course of fire and modify it slightly to add the additional requirements....then keep the records in case they ever ask. One comment they made to me on the phone is that they find that no two PDs do it the same, therefore the book is a little light on stating exactly what they require.

[jimlongley]

In a gunfight, any center-body-mass hit counts big. So, in "Combat Scoring", maximum points come from such hits (eg: inside the 8 ring) as opposed to scoring for marksmanship where max points only come in the X ring.

In October of 2013 TCOLE (now TCLEOSE) told me that "combat scoring" refers to standard B27 scoring - ie: the little target in the upper-left corner of the B27, or more simply: just like DPS does it for CHL qualification.

A few minutes ago, I called TCLEOSE and was told that no one there is sure what it means, but that DPS (CHL) scoring is fine. They appreciated my call pointing it out and would see if they could do something to better define it.

Thanks for the reply. They told me basically the same thing....they don't know what it means, but went on to say it must meet the intent of the rule.

It does say that the progression must start at "point blank range" or 1.5 yds. Draw and fire bent elbow. Then progressing back. This from the TCoLE handbook:

The minimum standards for the annual firearms proficiency course of fire shall be:
(1) handguns ‐ a minimum of 50 rounds, including at least five rounds of ammunition, fired at ranges from point‐blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload;

I guess I'll take the current CHL course of fire and modify it slightly to add the additional requirements....then keep the records in case they ever ask. One comment they made to me on the phone is that they find that no two PDs do it the same, therefore the book is a little light on stating exactly what they require.

" . . . from point blank to 15 yards . . . "????

That grates almost as much as calling a magazine a clip. Considering that "point blank" could be any range that a firearm is sighted in for, that does not give me enough information to intelligently determine the minimum range. I sight my handguns for point blank at about 15 yards, and my rifles for 100.

[dogflight]

I've been known to jestingly describe the first distance of CHL qualification as "starting with your gun in his belly button". I'm confident that 3 yards meets the point blank requirement for LEOSA.

I also insert a timed reload between two of the CHL stages and otherwise follow the standard course of fire.

In order to meet the "duty ammunition" part, I ask the applicant to use the same (or same caliber) handgun that they will carry, and have them use at least five rounds of their "carry ammunition" (if it's different than what they're using to qualify) at one of the reloads during the course of fire.

All of this is included in my class notes. I've never been questioned about it, but I feel that we've done our best to meet the requirements doing it this way.

[Mike S]

For the timed reload event I combined the 2 rnds in 4 seconds & the 3 rnds in 6 seconds events at the 7 yd line, with a reload in the middle (ie, engage with 2 rnds, reload, engage with 3 rnds, within 10 seconds). The remaining qual remained the same as for the standard CHL course of fire, with the inclusion of the 5 rnds of duty ammo somewhere in the mix.

As far as records & reporting, I issued the retired officer a CHL-100 for the range proficiency & submitted a CHL-8 to the DPS. Copies went into my training records to be kept for 3-yrs, treating them the same as CHL records. Not sure if this is required, but figured it prudent.

[switch]

I haven't had a retired LEO ask to do a proficiency yet.

I'd take that last 2 rounds at the 3 yard line and have them do a reload w/5 rounds and give them 13 seconds to fire 2, reload, fire 5.