How Long Would You Wait?

[JakeTheSnake]

This was posted on a neighborhood social network today on the Crime/Safety section.
Question is how long do you wait to see if the threat is real or not? I replied if it was kids playing around its a good way to get yourself killed.

Tonight while waiting at the light on 1604 to turn left onto Potranco, a white Nissan Frontier, four door truck; lic# AN7-7_ _ _, was ahead of me at the red light. The passenger behind the driver stuck his head out the window, he was white, wearing a ski mask, and looked back at my car. He did it again, and once again, but this time with a rifle, and pointed it at my car. It's hard to tell age from half a face, but I would guess he was younger than older. The truck had a yeti decal in the center of the window, along with a couple of other decals that I cannot recall. I was not able to move my vehicle, and the light soon turned green, and the truck took off down Potranco. Yes, I called the police, and was able to give them the full license plate number, though it escapes me now. If anyone sees this truck, please notify SAPD, the case number to reference is SAPD17005074. This happened around 6:15pm, today, 1/7/2017. Stay safe neighbors.

[flowrie]

Sure would like to see some of our LEO members respond to the OP.

First thought would be a car jacking about to take place (seeing the mask before the rifle ever came out).
If wife and kid were in the car with me, would have them on the floor and then I would take evasive action to move my car, even if I have to move another car or jump a curb.
I try not to let myself get boxed in at traffic lights, but I fail to do that on many occasions.

Glad you were cool enough to get description and plates.

[Flightmare]

Someone wearing a ski mask, after dark, and they were able to identify their skin color from their ski mask covered face?

[The Annoyed Man]

Someone wearing a ski mask, after dark, and they were able to identify their skin color from their ski mask covered face?

The passenger behind the driver stuck his head out the window, he was white, wearing a ski mask, and looked back at my car. He did it again, and once again, but this time with a rifle, and pointed it at my car. It's hard to tell age from half a face, but I would guess he was younger than older.

If I can see half of your face, I can make a reasonable assumption of skin color / race.

I'm guessing that's what the OP saw.

[JakeTheSnake]

To clarify, this did not happen to me. Was wanting feedback on this situation. I'm not sure how I would react, maybe take the offensive before needing to react defensively.
Initial, thought had to be kids acting stupidly. This is usually a very busy intersection at this time.
Then the thought came to me of the meme, "Which one is the BB gun..oops too late."

[treadlightly]

I remember hearing UPS drivers were instructed not to stop so close behind another vehicle at a traffic light they couldn't change lanes if the car in front stalled.

Not a bad idea. I think I'll make an effort to remember that trick.

[JakeTheSnake]

This was still daylight at a major intersection. Position of vehicles would be the two on the bottom right turn lane left on to Potranco from 1604.

[Soccerdad1995]

To clarify, this did not happen to me. Was wanting feedback on this situation. I'm not sure how I would react, maybe take the offensive before needing to react defensively.
Initial, thought had to be kids acting stupidly. This is usually a very busy intersection at this time.
Then the thought came to me of the meme, "Which one is the BB gun..oops too late."

I'm confused. Are you saying that it did happen (but to someone else), or that it did not happen at all?

I was going to ask whether there was more to the interaction since it sounded very odd. I was also unclear on whether you would even have a possible shot on the gunman if they were hanging out of the passengers seat of the truck right in front of you.

To simplify, I would say evasion is by far the best choice. But assuming one has mistakenly not left themselves a way out in their vehicle, and you actually have a clear shot with no risk of hitting innocent bystanders, then and only then would I take a shot. And I would not be waiting at all once I saw the weapon pointed at me.

[Soccerdad1995]

This was still daylight at a major intersection. Position of vehicles would be the two on the bottom right turn lane left on to Potranco from 1604.

IMG_0258.JPG

A couple observations from looking at that photo.

First, I can not envision how the driver of the second vehicle could get much of a shot at someone leaning out of the passenger side window of the first vehicle. If the driver stayed in his car, he would be shooting through his windshield, at an angle, at a small target, with a lot of people and vehicles likely to be impacted by any errant rounds. I'm thinking that to get any realistic shot, the driver would have to exit their vehicle. At that point, they might be better off just moving behind their car and using it as cover.

Second, I am not convinced that the driver could not evade while staying in their vehicle. Even without backing up, they could turn left and take out what appears to be a street sign while getting into the U-turn lane. While doing this, the shooter's target would get worse and worse, forcing him to shoot across the driver of his own vehicle, or over the top of the truck cab and through the roof of the target car.

Third, and most importantly, if the second vehicle had stopped even 5 to 10 feet shorter, the driver would have had a very clean and easy escape route into the U-turn lane. Space is your friend while driving, even when stopped.

[G26ster]

I'm confused. Are you saying that it did happen (but to someone else), or that it did not happen at all?

The OP said, "This was posted on a neighborhood social network today."

[kg5ie]

In my drivers ed classes, now in my LTC classes, I advise never to stop close enough to the vehicle ahead of you that you cannot see their rear tires touching the ground. If you can't see that, you have not left enough room to get around the car in front in an emergency (evade).

Try it.

As to the OP, when the gun came out I would have evaded right. Rear seat passenger, drivers side, would have no shot!

[Soccerdad1995]

I'm confused. Are you saying that it did happen (but to someone else), or that it did not happen at all?

The OP said, "This was posted on a neighborhood social network today."

Yes that edit cleared it up. My post was responding to the original unedited version.

[flowrie]

Here you go, similar situation, also, read down thru the comments.

http://www.ammoland.com/2017/01/private ... z4VCswFbnr

[JakeTheSnake]

I was not sure if my original unedited post was clear that this was taken from the Nextdoor app thats why I posted the clarification post.
The person who posted this states the BG was sitting behind the driver of the truck, on the drivers side.
Evading to the right would more than likely be blocked by multiple vehicles. You would end up destroying yours and many other vehicles while the BG drives away. Those on right will most likely not be good witnesses for you and all will have neck and back injuries while telling LE this crazy guy just plowed into me. Evading to the left would give the BG a better shot at you and your family/friends in passenger seats.

I'm just asking how long would you wait before defending yourself and family.
When the BG actually pulls the trigger? For myself being right handed, I would have to shoot off hand or exit vehicle to get more controlled shots.
I understand the concern for innocents behind the BG, but do you concern yourself with additional passengers in BG's vehicle or is it guilty by association?
Just playing out this situation in my head on possible tactics to take.

Sorry if my original post was not clear.

[Soccerdad1995]

I was not sure if my original unedited post was clear that this was taken from the Nextdoor app thats why I posted the clarification post.
The person who posted this states the BG was sitting behind the driver of the truck, on the drivers side.
Evading to the right would more than likely be blocked by multiple vehicles. You would end up destroying yours and many other vehicles while the BG drives away. Those on right will most likely not be good witnesses for you and all will have neck and back injuries while telling LE this crazy guy just plowed into me. Evading to the left would give the BG a better shot at you and your family/friends in passenger seats.

I'm just asking how long would you wait before defending yourself and family.
When the BG actually pulls the trigger? For myself being right handed, I would have to shoot off hand or exit vehicle to get more controlled shots.
I understand the concern for innocents behind the BG, but do you concern yourself with additional passengers in BG's vehicle or is it guilty by association?
Just playing out this situation in my head on possible tactics to take.

Sorry if my original post was not clear.

The potential shooter being on the drivers side does clear things up a bit. I was actually curious about how the driver even got a clear view of the shooter if they had been on the passenger side.

But I think the part I bolded really sums up the tactical conundrum that you would still face regardless. Either shoot through the windshield, or take an off-handed shot with your left hand, or leave the vehicle. None are great choices, especially if you have family in your vehicle. This underscores why avoiding the situation is the best choice. By leaving some room between you and the car in front of you.

But if I did end up shooting, then yes, I would absolutely be concerned about whether I had a clear shot, and where my rounds would end up if I happened to miss. And I don't know that I would automatically consider the other people in the truck as "fair game". My whole mindset would be to get out of that situation as safely as possible. Which is why shooting would be an absolute last resort.