Traveling with a Handgun from Ronald Reagan National Airport

[hi-power]

Just throwing this out there...

I had no problem declaring my handgun at D/FW other than I had to walk about 10 gates to the little TSA office and listen to a TSA agent tell me that the cheap plastic Doskocil box I bought could probably be unlocked with a fingernail. (I had the choice of either that $20 unit or a $120 one at Academy - I should have gone with the more expensive one ).

Coming back from my trip to Northern Virginia was a different story. The ticket agent was nice and calm and had me open up the locked case in front of every American Airlines passenger who happened to be in line behind me so I could place the little firearm declaration form into it. I did that, locked the case, and put it back into my suitcase. All fairly calm and somewhat normal.

Then I had to walk around to the TSA area where they scan every piece of luggage. When the guy said to set the bags down and it was OK to leave, I mentioned I had a handgun in one of the bags. After watching his reaction, I had to replay what I said in my head to make sure I didn't say "I have a nuclear weapon in my suitcase". He made the wife and I stand in the corner and not touch the bag while he quickly told every other TSA agent that there was a handgun in my suitcase, you know, in case I decided to open it up and fire on everyone there.

He asked me a series of questions in rapid-fire succession that I answered just as quickly, then he wanted to know which ticket agent let me walk from the counter to the x-ray machine (about 10 yards) unescorted. I pointed at her just on the other side of the x-ray machines, and off he went to have a few words with her.

When he came back there was lots of stand here, don't touch the suitcase, no stand over there, bring the bag to this machine, are there any guns in any of your other bags?, etc.

After scanning the bag with the handgun, it all ended with "OK, you can go". I just had to ask if he was sure about that, and he answered affirmatively. I asked why all the excitement and he said the ticket agent should have gotten someone to escort me over and hand me off to TSA and she didn't do that.

My wife asked me if it was worth the hassle to fly with a handgun and after I thought hard about it I told her I would definitely not let that episode stop me from lawfully carrying where I could. Hopefully I'll never run into that TSA guy again.

[stevie_d_64]

I sense a high degree of sarcasm in your post...

I believe the last sentence says it all about you and how you handled it for real...You gave a great answer to the question...

Don't let the agenda discourage you from transporting a firearm again...

You ran into some "out of the norm" agents there...

I'm just glad I don't have to fly anymore...Anywhere I really need to go is right here within driving distance in the state of Texas...

Jim, wanna chime in here???

[jimlongley]

I sense a high degree of sarcasm in your post...

I believe the last sentence says it all about you and how you handled it for real...You gave a great answer to the question...

Don't let the agenda discourage you from transporting a firearm again...

You ran into some "out of the norm" agents there...

I'm just glad I don't have to fly anymore...Anywhere I really need to go is right here within driving distance in the state of Texas...

Jim, wanna chime in here???

I would file a complaint about the first TSA agent.

TSA has no right to tell you anything about the box you use as long as it fits the guidelines. I have carried guns in their original (lockable) boxes, which are flimsy at best, and I have seen them come through in locked wooden boxes that could be disassembled with a good smack on the ground.

Then I would file a complaint about the second one, because they are strictly forbidden from making any comments about firearms in bags, and once again, they have no power over the airlines at all. If the procedure is and has been to carry the bags from the check-in to the x-ray (and it's that way at lots of airports) then that's the procedure, no matter what's in your bag.

[hi-power]

I sense a high degree of sarcasm in your post...

The force is strong with you!

I would file a complaint about the first TSA agent.

TSA has no right to tell you anything about the box you use as long as it fits the guidelines. I have carried guns in their original (lockable) boxes, which are flimsy at best, and I have seen them come through in locked wooden boxes that could be disassembled with a good smack on the ground.

Then I would file a complaint about the second one, because they are strictly forbidden from making any comments about firearms in bags, and once again, they have no power over the airlines at all. If the procedure is and has been to carry the bags from the check-in to the x-ray (and it's that way at lots of airports) then that's the procedure, no matter what's in your bag.

Well, of course I didn't get either of their names, so I guess I'll chalk it up to experience. I'll be ready next time, though.

[para driver]

I wish I could come up with a clever acryonm for TSA:
Temporary Superior Attitude..

[stevie_d_64]

One thing though...And I have to give it to them...They have a very important job to do...They have to be right 100% of the time...

And as aggravating as it is sometimes when we hear about stuff like this, the best thing we can do as a flying public is do everything we can to NOT complicate things for them...

Anticipate, learn from others experiences, roll all of that into a smart plan that fits for you, and fly with confidence...Let them know (by your good attitude, positive manner in which you carry yourself) all along your trip that you are doing this not by their approval, its because you can, and will do so without any regrets...

You're not the first one they've seen check in a firearm when you travel...And you will not be the last...But you should be one they remember, because how you carry yourself in an environment like this speaks for the rest of us as well...

[KBCraig]

One thing though...And I have to give it to them...They have a very important job to do...They have to be right 100% of the time...

And yet, they're only right about 10% of the time. They're going to get your water bottle and shampoo, but miss 90% of the bombs.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 ... a_fai.html

[stevie_d_64]

One thing though...And I have to give it to them...They have a very important job to do...They have to be right 100% of the time...

And yet, they're only right about 10% of the time. They're going to get your water bottle and shampoo, but miss 90% of the bombs.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2 ... a_fai.html

ok...

Dzakovic was a Red Team leader from 1995 until September 11, 2001. After the terrorist attacks, Dzakovic became a federally protected whistleblower and alleged that thousands of people died needlessly. He testified before the 9/11 Commission and the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the US that the Red Team "breached security with ridiculous ease up to 90 percent of the time," and said the FAA "knew how vulnerable aviation security was."

I would assume the precentages are a bit different now...Albiet not totally perfect, with all the legitimate probing by these same types of teams, and the media doing their own sensationalistic sweep week headlining "probes"...

All I implied was that they have to be 100% right, and I would think that would be an acceptable goal to shoot for...

I am certainly bothered by the weirdness of some efforts by the TSA around certain parts of the country, and that we as the flying public need to be on top of how they would like to do things, sure, our choice to check in firearms does get a few folks bowels in an uproar, but like I said we can do things to let them know we are still not the problem...

Besides, you do know its a conspiracy to make the flying public buy those $3 lukewarm bottled water on the flights, and the hotel chains are selling their "emergency" bottled shampoos for those who just don't have the time to find a local drugstore at their destinations...(sarcasm mode - off)

I did my part when I flew right after 9-11...And never had a lick of a problem (but once, and that was someone else copping an attitude)...

[para driver]

I don't see what is to be gained by giving them a hard time?

I have not flown with a firearm since 9/11.. just haven't needed to..
However, I've been through the process several times in London, and Johannesburg so I've just learned to smile and let'm do whatever they are going to do, as long as they are not violating my rights or dignity.
One time in London, I did ask for a supervisor, as the baggage folks didn't seem competant in what they were doing, mostly asking each other what they thought they should do. One idiot wanted the keys to my gun case so he could open and inspect it NOT in my presence. I just quoted him the airline regs that passengers must be present if an inspection is requested. So off we went, under security down to the damn tarmac at Heathrow and we opened the bags, all is good, put'm on the plane, have a nice flight.

Smile, be polite, know the rules, be pleasant but firm if they get wacky.

[Dan20703]

I agree with Para Driver. Know the rules and be polite.

I've traveled several times with Southwest Airlines. Some of the ticket agents were well aquainted with the procedures and some were not. Even had one female agent pick up the P32, check the chamber and held for an extra 10-15 seconds. She then commented that it was a cute gun.
She wanted one. I could see that look in her eyes!

The main objective is to clear baggage and get on your flight.

[KBCraig]

Dzakovic was a Red Team leader from 1995 until September 11, 2001. After the terrorist attacks, Dzakovic became a federally protected whistleblower and alleged that thousands of people died needlessly. He testified before the 9/11 Commission and the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the US that the Red Team "breached security with ridiculous ease up to 90 percent of the time," and said the FAA "knew how vulnerable aviation security was."

I would assume the precentages are a bit different now...

The 90% failure at DIA was in February or March 2007.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=67166

[stevie_d_64]

Dzakovic was a Red Team leader from 1995 until September 11, 2001. After the terrorist attacks, Dzakovic became a federally protected whistleblower and alleged that thousands of people died needlessly. He testified before the 9/11 Commission and the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the US that the Red Team "breached security with ridiculous ease up to 90 percent of the time," and said the FAA "knew how vulnerable aviation security was."

I would assume the precentages are a bit different now...

The 90% failure at DIA was in February or March 2007.

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=67166

Ok, I'm sure there are a few people looking for a new line of work then...

Obviously there seems to be a drop off, or complacency, in certain areas...

And if you think about it, it may be a good thing from a sense that the "shakeups" around this countries airports and screeners is that there is no consistancy...You don't know when you are going to get the Nth degree, and be able to "do something", just because one of your intelligence guys saw that it was lax somewhere...It may not be that way when someone actually tries to do something bad...

Right???

[stevie_d_64]

I've traveled several times with Southwest Airlines. Some of the ticket agents were well aquainted with the procedures and some were not. Even had one female agent pick up the P32, check the chamber and held for an extra 10-15 seconds. She then commented that it was a cute gun.
She wanted one. I could see that look in her eyes!

The main objective is to clear baggage and get on your flight.

No one (especially a ticket counter employee) should ever touch your firearm in the process of getting it through the check in process...There is no reason to do anything but visually verify the weapon is unloaded and will fly in an approved case within your checked baggage, period...

Jim can confirm this if its still true...That even the TSA is not supposed to even touch them at all, its a suspendable offense and maybe even grounds for termination...

- Declare (at the ticket counter)...

- fill out the form...

- "they" visually verify the weapon is unloaded, no touching!

- place tag/form "in" the firearm case, secure the case...

Press on with the rest of the procedure...

No where in there, or anywhere where I have flown in and out of did anyone make a move to handle the firearm...***

They (airlines or TSA) have no business, or reason, to do anything other than visual procedures...

Now, I understand that this may have been the result of you leaving the pistol obviously unloaded, magazine out and empty, ammunition packed separately, but you probably left the pistol with the slide not locked back...

*** The way to remove any desire to "handle" anything would be to leave it back in "slide lock" and get you a few zip ties in your bag (for the trip) to run through it, like you do when you go to some gunshows...

[Dan20703]

No one (especially a ticket counter employee) should ever touch your firearm in the process of getting it through the check in process...There is no reason to do anything but visually verify the weapon is unloaded and will fly in an approved case within your checked baggage, period..

This happened in New Orleans about 2 years ago. Since then they have apparently changed their policy. Nobody else since then has touched the guns I have checked. BTW, the slide was open but no zip-tie.(good idea)

[jimlongley]

Jim can confirm this if its still true...That even the TSA is not supposed to even touch them at all, its a suspendable offense and maybe even grounds for termination...

- Declare (at the ticket counter)...

- fill out the form...

- "they" visually verify the weapon is unloaded, no touching!

- place tag/form "in" the firearm case, secure the case...

Press on with the rest of the procedure...

No where in there, or anywhere where I have flown in and out of did anyone make a move to handle the firearm...***

They (airlines or TSA) have no business, or reason, to do anything other than visual procedures...

Now, I understand that this may have been the result of you leaving the pistol obviously unloaded, magazine out and empty, ammunition packed separately, but you probably left the pistol with the slide not locked back...

*** The way to remove any desire to "handle" anything would be to leave it back in "slide lock" and get you a few zip ties in your bag (for the trip) to run through it, like you do when you go to some gunshows...

True!