Called out on second day of carry!!

[LedJedi]

now, if the guy gets up and LEAVES the backpack. be concerned.

hmmm, as I recall a lot of terrorists really don't have a problem blowing themselves up along with their intended targets.

[pbandjelly]

hmmm, as I recall, they sell a LOT of back packs to people not, you know, suicide-bombers.

course, maybe I'm wrong.

[tallmike]

Liberty and Jelly, Im glad the 2 of you are in this topic for some reasonable viewpoints.

When you live in fear of your neighbor then the terrorists have accomplished their goals. They want us to turn on each other and kill ourselves, it makes their job exponentially easier.

Go about life free, and live with some risk Thats the American way, the way of freedom. Dont sell out your freedom (and mine) out of fear. Those fears will subside someday, getting the freedoms back is much harder and may never happen.

[Huff9337]

If I am not mistaken, backpacks were used a year os so ago to blown up the buses and the trains in England. There are lots of reasons to be causes about backpacks. I do not want to give up anymore freedoms, but sometimes it is nessarey.
Huff

[longtooth]

Respectfully disagree sir.
Give up one freedom because it is necessary & a couple of yrs later there is another one to give up because it is necessary too. If backpacs are outlawed them they will Carry it in a briefcase, (hey that has already been thought of), then in an Igglo lunch bucket....
I'll keep mine.
We will deal w/ the criminals & terrorists.

[Liberty]

If I am not mistaken, backpacks were used a year os so ago to blown up the buses and the trains in England. There are lots of reasons to be causes about backpacks. I do not want to give up anymore freedoms, but sometimes it is nessarey.
Huff

England is a a whole `nother country, across another ocean with a king and a queen. They have a lot larger Muslim population. Only criminals and the Goverment are allowed to have guns. And the whole idea of self defense is foriegn to them. They don't even speak the same language, its an incomprehensible dialect.

England really is a whole different world than the one we have in Texas. While vigilance is always a good idea. Unless we start looking at the Bush family as royalty. England has little in common with Texas.

[Hoppes]

Respectfully disagree sir.
Give up one freedom because it is necessary & a couple of yrs later there is another one to give up because it is necessary too. If backpacs are outlawed them they will Carry it in a briefcase, (hey that has already been thought of), then in an Igglo lunch bucket....
I'll keep mine.
We will deal w/ the criminals & terrorists.

I am very proud of my freedom too. But I am going to be proactive in noticing things like a back pack that seems out of place to me. I would be less likely to be more cautious (condition yellow) if the person walked off the street with a back pack without me seeing him get out of a car, then I would if someone got out of an old beat up car, just a few feet from the entrance of the theatre, clutching his back pack tightly, and clutching it the whole movie.

It comes down to the fact that I was there and I saw what was going on. Is it paranoid or common sense to wonder what was going on with that back pack knowing what I do today about all of the attacks that have happened in many parts of the world and by all different races? How does this situation relate to a personal safety situation? When is a person considered paranoid versus just keeping a watchful eye on his or her safety? Is a teenager smoking on a street corner across the street from you a threat to you or your safety? Do you just stumble on to your parking place, or around the corner without being cognizant of what is around that corner? Could that teenager be a spotter for the two gang bangers around the corner waiting on you? What I am saying is be alert. The people who die in an attack are those that didn't observe. They weren't ready for any attack. I'm saying I think we need to be ready for attacks even if they haven't started. I'm not talking about civil freedoms.

I don't think I would be concerned with P&BJelly's toting a back pack all over a big hospital campus because it would be in place to me. But I just don't agree with a back pack in a dark theatre.

We've lost many freedoms not because we haven't used them, but because we've turned our eyes and actions away from a government that does not have our interest at heart. I believe we can do more to protect our freedoms ourselves by being more watchful and proactive. Don't take things for granted. Be proactive. Watch what the government does. Be responsible for knowing what is going on around you. Question whether something you see or know is good or bad. I have seen videos lately that shows terrorists training to bring back packs into America and blow them up, along with our families and Americans. I am not afraid. I am watchful of this kind of attack to protect my family.

So back to my original question, When does a person call it paranoid instead of just being cautious as it related to personal defense of your safety and that of your family members? That was my original intended question.

Hoppes

[Hoppes]

OH FOR THE LOVE OF PETE.

a flippin' back pack. really?

I carry a back pack everywhere I go. you see, scrubs don't really have that many pockets, and the way my particular job works, I may be at the OutPatient center, or the main hospital, or both, or neither.
so, it's MY mobile locker.

or students. shewt, I wouldn't have wanted to leave my laptop in the car, what with a weirdo eye-ballin' me. what with his daughter going to an R-rated movie. beside the point... anyway

now, if the guy gets up and LEAVES the backpack. be concerned.
otherwise, really? a back pack?

saw a guy in a coat, and had to plug'em. no tellin' what was under that coat.... it was only 60degrees....

sometimes, we go too far. from observant, to apparently ruined your movie experience.

Pbandjelly,

I don't carry my daughter to R-rated movies. Sometimes we assume things that just isn't so.

I'll recap my original question and concern:

When does a person become paranoid instead of just concerned with his or her safety and the safety of his family? Looking at many posts before I answered you, I see a few folks think I'm talking about personal freedom.

Instead, I am talking about personal safety situation and I am asking others for advice. Freedom is another subject, entirely separate from personal safety concern and being ready for anything that might happen (risk management).

Hoppes

[LedJedi]

I generally agree with Hoppes here.

I understand the concept of letting the terrorists win by being paranoid and overly cautious and giving up our freedoms in the interest of security. Trust me, i completely understand that. Unregulated spying on civilians falls into that category for me. Not suspicious bags in public places. That's exactly what went BOOM over across the pond.

I'm sure the family members of those affected by that tragedy wish someone had stepped up and asked a security guard to check that person's backpack. If he had been ok then there would have never been a problem.

I think it's foolish to ignore activity that is "reasonably out of place or suspicious." The fact of the matter is it's not paranoia if there really ARE people out to get you, and there ARE. I also understand that "reasonable suspicion" can be abused to no end by law enforcement.

Curious and reasonable caution are A OK in my book and having a security guard politely ask that person what's in the bag after I've already left the area is very reasonable to me.

To some that might be considered overkill or paranoia or the terrorists winning, but i'm paranoid and alive in that situation and not sitting in the theater sweating that guy that has me freaked out.

I understand folks disagree with me, but that's what makes this country great. You can do that and not get shot! (usually)

[pbandjelly]

you were so concerned you didn't leave.

[NcongruNt]

I can think of many many different scenarios in your circumstance that do not involve malevolent intent.

I carry a backpack just about everywhere I go. It always contains my laptop, various electronics, and some camera equipment. I have a tendency to leave things behind when I leave a place, so i try to keep it close at all times. I've been known to lose valuable items (such as expensive cell phones) in theaters by accident, never to see them again.

When I go to a movie, I take my bag with me. I'm not about to leave valuable electronics in the parking lot where they can easily be stolen. I am sure I have exhibited the same overprotection of my bag when I've just cashed a check and stashed several hundred dollars inside it. I do not let it out of my immediate control.

I agree with the sentiment of others, that if you were truly concerned for your safety, you should have left. In answer to your question, I don't know if you were being too paranoid. I wasn't there.

From my pedestrian understanding of your situation, I would say yes. I also drive an old vehicle, and many would consider it beat-up. I have had my car broken into and valuables stolen. Now, any valuables I have stay with me in my backpack, not the car. While it is prudent to avoid and report overtly suspicious activity to authorities, I think it is both unreasonable and contrary to the concept of free and open to society to make assumptions for the worst on what we imagine might be. I am certainly not willing to give up my up my right to privacy to obtain the "security" of protection from what might be. Such actions lead down a long and arduous path toward totalitarianism. Not to sound cliche, but Nazi Germany was a prime example of this in action. To quote Benjamin Franklin:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

The fact that we as a society are becoming more and more willing to allow governmental entities to infringe upon our rights without probable cause or even a reasonable suspicion concerns me deeply. I do not want to live in a society where I can be searched and my property seized because of what someone thinks might be without any evidence to support that suspicion.

[Apache75]

I've been the "guy with a backpack" on a few occasions as well.

Recently my wife called and asked me to pick some items up at the grocery store before I came home from work. I drive a Jeep Wrangler with a soft top, which has been "cut into" on four occasions now, so I don't leave anything at all sitting in it locked up. I realised that sitting next to me on the passenger seat was my backpack/laptop bag which contained both my Apple laptop and my Glock 19 - Two items I really can't afford to lose. I wore it into the store and had no problem while shopping, but the entire time I was there I was wondering if someone would accuse me of shoplifting and ask to look in my bag.

[Mage34]

If any of you have ever read/watched 1984, this is the way we are going. If we allow the government to continue to take away personal freedoms in the name of safety then this is where we will be. If we require others to give us safety, then freedoms must be given up, but if we try to keep ourselves safe then we can keep our freedoms. Unfortunately most people think it is someone else’s responsibility. Just my two cents.....

[Big Iron]

I have to agree with pbandj, NcongruNt, Mage34, Apache75, et. al. on this one. I, too, often carry a backpack when I'm riding my motorcycle. It's just not safe to leave anything on your motorcycle when you park it. And we're on the CHL forum, presumably because most of us carry firearms sometimes. If you've got your sidearm in your backpack, you're probably a little bit paranoid about accidentally walking away from it or having someone sneak it away when you're all caught up in the excitement on the movie screen, right? Imagine the field day the press would have with a CHL holder carelessly leaving his or her weapon in the movie theater, and having it discovered by some little kid. I'm always very paranoid about where my pistol is when I'm out, and I've been carrying for more than a decade.

Years ago, when I briefly worked as a pharmacist intern in a retail store, I carried my briefcase out when I was leaving for the day. The "greeter" asked to look inside, and I refused. I asked her if she was also asking to look inside the female customers' purses when they left, or was there something unusually suspicious about me. Got a blank look on her face, like she had never been told NO before. Doubt she had ever heard of the fourth amendment .

Here's my point: It's just like the right to bear arms. The anti's tell us that there is no need to carry arms; the right is obsolete. I think they have gotten that impression because hardly anyone carries, and those that do carry do so discreetly and we don't talk about it (with good reason, I concede). Now, we are being asked to forget about the fourth amendment because no one needs to carry things that everyone else can't see or know about, in the name of public safety. It's the old, "If you've got nothing to hide, you won't mind the nice policeman or Big Brother patting you down, reading your mail, listening to your phonecalls, etc." Poppycock.

Much of the time when I carry a sidearm, it's got more to do with reassuring myself that I still have the right to bear arms than because I'm afraid of criminals or the boogeyman. Likewise, I'll never agree to have my backpack, car, or self searched by anyone; not because I have something to hide, but because we all have something precious to protect (the dignity of free men).

[TX Rancher]

If you are uncomfortable with something you see in public and think it’s a risk that should be investigated, then report it. If not, then leave it alone. To me it’s a simple as that.

In this particular case (backpacks), sure they’ve been used to commit terrorist acts in Europe, but a pack by itself does not equate to the risk of terrorism, anymore then carrying a gun equates to a violent act. It’s not the pack that should be the cause of concern, it’s the circumstances surrounding the pack that should matter. Remember, backpacks don’t kill people, people kill people.

Look at the circumstances, profile the individual, if your internal radar shows a blip, then report it to someone responsible for security. After all, you are the last line of defense for yours and your family’s safety…better to err on the side of safety then to bury a loved one…

If you’re on the other side of the equation, and want to carry a bag, then carry it. As far as I know there are no laws against it. Understand that there will be folks that will be uncomfortable with the situation, but like everyone is comfortable with concealed carry, and you don’t let that get in your way. Just understand it may raise concerns in the present environment and opens you up to profiling. If security comes to “investigate� since some civilian profiled you, cooperate. It will pass quickly if you don’t make a big deal out of it and everyone gets to continue to go about their business. If you don’t want to deal with it, then don’t carry a bag…your choice.

I tend to look at it from the point if either side overreacts, then at some level the terrorists have a victory. But if both sides react reasonably, and with the overall interest of society in mind, then that’s no victory for the terrorist.

And keep in mind, that while terror is a truly evil thing, it’s a very rare thing when compared to car crashes, ladder accidents, robbery, sexual assault, kidnapping, deadly falls in the bathtub, and a host of other things that can have extremely detrimental impacts on your life. Even in Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq you are more likely to die due to something other then terror. In the current US, it’s very unlikely.

React to the possibility…increase your awareness…be politically incorrect and profile…but don’t overreact…keep the odds in mind, along with the rest of the situation, and make your judgment call.